(April 23, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Alex K Wrote: Gurrelieder is certainly not atonal.  Similar things could have been written by Wagner.

Also, like him or not, I don't actually, you can still appreciate him as a pioneer.

(April 23, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Wagner bores me to tears, too.

Now you're shifting the goalpost. Wagner surely doesn't bore you bc he is atonal.

(April 23, 2016 at 4:34 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 23, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Alex K Wrote: Gurrelieder is certainly not atonal.  Similar things could have been written by Wagner.

Also, like him or not, I don't actually, you can still appreciate him as a pioneer.

Yes, certainly. But do you know the Gurrelieder I linked (in bad recording sound quality I notice)? The ouverture I think is very reminiscent (or rather the opposite) of the harmonies and styles we are used to hearing today in, say, film music. Only better, in my opinion.

Apart from Wagner having been an asshole, he's anything but boring. But the composer being an asshole never prevented me from enjoying his music.

(April 23, 2016 at 5:51 pm)abaris Wrote: Apart from Wagner having been an asshole, he's anything but boring. But the composer being an asshole never prevented me from enjoying his music.

I've seen the ring cycle partly live, partly from recordings, and it was enjoyable.

Here's better quality of the Schönberg

https://youtu.be/75MqAyETxn0

Speaking of atonality. I wonder why noone mentioned Giörgy Ligeti before.

Also, going back to Wagner, is that boring?

(April 23, 2016 at 5:46 pm)Alex K Wrote:

(April 23, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Wagner bores me to tears, too.

Now you're shifting the goalpost. Wagner surely doesn't bore you bc he is atonal.

No.  Wagner bores me because he's boring.

Maybe its that its in German and not Italian?

Schonberg bores me because he is atonal.







It's hard to know when the orchestra is finished tuning and when the piece begins!

(April 23, 2016 at 5:51 pm)abaris Wrote: Apart from Wagner having been an asshole, he's anything but boring. But the composer being an asshole never prevented me from enjoying his music.

Honestly, I have to say, if you dismiss a great artist's work solely because he was a terrible person (or at least a jackass; even bearing in mind Hitler's love for Wagner and their alarmingly similar views on the Jews, I can't figure out which is more apt, especially given that the evidence that Wagner's anti-semitism truly influenced Hitler's is fairly shaky), the arts would likely be much poorer for it. Chuck Berry is a convicted sex offender, D.W. Griffith was so racist that one of his films actually horrified many during "The Nadir of American Race Relations", Eugene O'Neill was an inveterate drunk who abused his family and disowned all three of his children in between writing plays that ushered in a new era of American drama, and Mozart, as I'm sure we all know, was a twat. But imagine the musical, literary, and cinematic world without any of these people.

(April 23, 2016 at 6:08 pm)abaris Wrote: Speaking of atonality. I wonder why noone mentioned Giörgy Ligeti before.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED, MUTHAFUCKA!

Here's a piece my favourite film director of all time used in his last movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3SgDybR5lA

and in context:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DExkPNbo7I