Do we have free will, or do we live in a deterministic universe?


*Long OP explaining the simple poll boring every one of its readers, including its author*

Discuss.

Not enough polling options for me. I don't really understand what "free will" means. To me "free will" was always synonymous with "without meddling from God". So, using that definition I would say yes. God, being non existent, never meddles. If we aren't using that definition then I don't think I fully understand what free will could be.

There is a third option, that all actions are the net result of (quantum) randomness. So (in my opinion) it doesn't make sense to call this "free will", nor is the universe entirely deterministic, if this was the case.

However, this still results in the answer "no" to free will so I will vote that way. If I had to guess, I think it's an illusion of sorts.

But I agree with Losty. the concept of "free will" is not well defined. In fact, I consider it to be as slippery as woo words.

I have no choice but to say YES.

I don't know what free will means, either. Also, I sense a false dichotomy free will vs. determinism.

A couple days ago, this came out:
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/free-wil...aims-study

"
Our minds may be rewriting history,” Adam Bear, a Ph.D. student in the Department of Psychology at Yale University and lead author of the study, said in a statement. The implication here is that when it comes to very short time scales, even before we think we’ve made a conscious choice, our mind has already subconsciously decided for us, and free will is more of an illusion than we think.
"

Yeah, I remember seeing something about that before with Marcus du Sautoy. The conscious mind seems like a storyteller and a rationaliser.

Beware the "free will fallacy", I've seen some very intelligent people slip up on it:

If we have no genuine choices then we should [alter our behaviour in some way] because [persuading reasons].

It contradicts the premise. "Should", as pertaining to some sort of persuading argument, has no meaning without a genuine choice.

The fact I've seen this so often just goes to show how accustomed we are to thinking we have a choice, whether we actually do or not.

(May 8, 2016 at 3:32 am)robvalue Wrote: There is a third option, that all actions are the net result of (quantum) randomness. So (in my opinion) it doesn't make sense to call this "free will", nor is the universe entirely deterministic, if this was the case.

However, this still results in the answer "no" to free will so I will vote that way. If I had to guess, I think it's an illusion of sorts.

But I agree with Losty. the concept of "free will" is not well defined. In fact, I consider it to be as slippery as woo words.

Well, even with quantum randomness, there's still cause and effect, right?

(May 8, 2016 at 5:21 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't know what free will means, either. Also, I sense a false dichotomy free will vs. determinism.

You can vote both yes and no, so I'm not really giving you a false choice, unless you think there's a fourth option beyond free will, determinism, and a view that considers them both simultaneously.


Anyway, my view is none of us have any choice, ever, and it's all out of our control. Call that determinism or whatever you like, but it seems to me only this can be the case, anything else doesn't even make sense.