(June 5, 2016 at 12:13 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 4, 2016 at 9:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You know, the way you describe your 'god' you make him sound like a real asshole.  Perhaps you should re-think your devotion to such a useless sack of shit.

A being who created the universe doesn't seem useless to me Mini.  Of course, he did create you.  Hmmmmm.........

Uh know it takes 2 people to create a human being god had no role in creating Min. 
If you argue for that then you pretty much have to agree god made atheists and he made people that don't believe in him 
that will burn in hell.

Can you choose to not believe that the device you're watching through is real?

Seriously. I'll assume that you believe it's real. Can you suddenly alter your state of mind, so you really don't believe it's real? Through choice?

I don't mean some kind of word game. Sure, solipsism, and all that. But specifically the device in front of you. That's suddenly less real than everything else around you. Can you choose that state of mind?

If you can, you're a scary person. If not, you understand how atheism isn't a choice.

If a being created an image of himself it would encompass all the attributes and possibilities of its nature .... either he was a shitty God, cause we are pretty shitty or it was a fairy tale, in my opinion it is the latter ...

Dog.

Well, if god is in charge of the world he sure has done a shitty job so far.

Can I fire him? I would really like to fire him!

(June 5, 2016 at 1:10 pm)SilverFrog Wrote: Well, if god is in charge of the world he sure has done a shitty job so far.

Can I fire him? I would really like to fire him!

A few years before I was born, there was a Portuguese general, running for president in the time Portugal was a dictatorship ruled by prime minister Salazar, asked by the press about the prime minister, he said " Obviously, I will fire him.". He was murdered beforw even getting to be elected.

Regarding god, whatever that may be, you can't fire something imaginary, IMHO.

(June 5, 2016 at 12:09 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 4, 2016 at 8:44 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Wrong again.  As an omnipotent, omniscient Being, God created everything, including our decisions and choices.  In the context of such a Being, there can logically be no free will.  If you buy into the rubbish that God created the universe, then God knew, from the beginning of time, that I would be an atheist - I had no choice in the matter, just as you had no choice in believing the most outlandish collection of fairy stories ever inflicted on the western world.  If God made everything, then God made me an atheist, made you a believer, made rapists, torturers, and murderers.  God is directly responsible for evil, full stop.

Boru

I can't agree with you on that.  God made us with the capacity to make our own choices.  We alone decide what choices they are going to be.  In no way does God make the choices.  You chose to be an atheist totally on your own.  God didn't coerce you into your choice and doesn't own your decision.

*indulgent chuckle* You don't have to agree with me on anything. But the stance that 'God created everything, but human beings still have free will' creates an implosion of logic. If God created the universe, then God created all things and the spaces between those things (this bit is definitional and not subject to debate). The notion that choices and decisions don't qualify as 'things' is simply loony (if they aren't 'things', then what are they?). Thus, if God did NOT create choices and decisions, then God did not create the universe.

Or, look at it another way. God knows, and always had known - from the instantiation of the universe - that a particular man, call him 'Joe', if going to rape and murder a 6 years old child on a particular day at a particular time(if God does not know this, then God cannot be omnipotent). The universe is 13.8 billion years old, give or take a smidge. For all that time, up to the present day, God knows this bit of horror is going to take place. He knows what his creation (Joe) is going to decide to do. God knows that inescapably and inexorably. Yet God permits the creation of the rapist and murderer of a child, a situation he could have easily prevented.

How does God NOT bear responsibility for this?

Boru

(June 5, 2016 at 3:26 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: *indulgent chuckle*  You don't have to agree with me on anything.  But the stance that 'God created everything, but human beings still have free will' creates an implosion of logic.  If God created the universe, then God created all things and the spaces between those things (this bit is definitional and not subject to debate).  The notion that choices and decisions don't qualify as 'things' is simply loony  (if they aren't 'things', then what are they?).  Thus, if God did NOT create choices and decisions, then God did not create the universe.

God created free will, the ability for people to make their own choices. He created the potential for his creatures to cause things to happen. He created a universe in which his creatures can determine that something will occur.

(June 5, 2016 at 3:48 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 5, 2016 at 3:26 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: *indulgent chuckle*  You don't have to agree with me on anything.  But the stance that 'God created everything, but human beings still have free will' creates an implosion of logic.  If God created the universe, then God created all things and the spaces between those things (this bit is definitional and not subject to debate).  The notion that choices and decisions don't qualify as 'things' is simply loony  (if they aren't 'things', then what are they?).  Thus, if God did NOT create choices and decisions, then God did not create the universe.

God created free will, the ability for people to make their own choices.  He created the potential for his creatures to cause things to happen.  He created a universe in which his creatures can determine that something will occur.

How do you know this? did God tell you?

My friend said the Devil said God doesn't exist .... and I have historical evidence that my friend existed.

(June 5, 2016 at 12:42 pm)robvalue Wrote: Can you choose to not believe that the device you're watching through is real?

Seriously. I'll assume that you believe it's real. Can you suddenly alter your state of mind, so you really don't believe it's real? Through choice?

I don't mean some kind of word game. Sure, solipsism, and all that. But specifically the device in front of you. That's suddenly less real than everything else around you. Can you choose that state of mind?

If you can, you're a scary person. If not, you understand how atheism isn't a choice.

Sure. I can tell you about God and you can choose to believe me or not.

(June 5, 2016 at 3:53 pm)Lek Wrote: Sure.  I can tell you about God and you can choose to believe me or not.

No, you can't. All you can tell us is what you believe about you personal image of what gawd is.

Do you really believe people choose what they believe?!? Really?