hello ruhollah, welcome to the forums!

i have one question, do you believe that you must learn arabic to fully understand the quran?

for example if i come to you with a quote such as this:
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

will you say that i must learn arabic to fully understand the nature of this? or do you accept that this is what us 'infidels' deserve?

(April 22, 2011 at 5:22 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: hello ruhollah, welcome to the forums!

i have one question, do you believe that you must learn arabic to fully understand the quran?

for example if i come to you with a quote such as this:
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

will you say that i must learn arabic to fully understand the nature of this? or do you accept that this is what us 'infidels' deserve?

Hi there

Arabic is a complex language and the poetic nature of the Quran makes it even more difficult to analyze/read for a beginner. In fact, many of the translated quran don't really capture exactly what the text is saying.

It is best to consult an expert in pre-Islamic Arabic who can give a better picture of what the text is saying.

Although you can read and English translation of the text, you need some sort of supplement to understand the setting under which those verses were revealed.

If you are interested, I can provided you with a series of audio lectures that address all these controversial verses... such as those on stoning, cutting hand if you steal, infidels...etc. These lectures are in English and can give much better details than I can...

please let me know and I can pm the links, or maybe even post them here.......

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(April 22, 2011 at 4:06 am)Rayaan Wrote: Welcome ruhollah, and please stick around.

I was alone here for quite a while. So I'm happy to see another Muslim who can post rationally and keep his calmness unlike some of the random spammers.

Hey look, you got two reps already on the first day.

Hope you continue to post.

Salaam.

Thanks Rayaan, I hope I can stick around. I see you were doing a good job when you were alone here...

(April 22, 2011 at 5:50 am)ruhollah Wrote:

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(April 22, 2011 at 5:22 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: hello ruhollah, welcome to the forums!

i have one question, do you believe that you must learn arabic to fully understand the quran?

for example if i come to you with a quote such as this:
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

will you say that i must learn arabic to fully understand the nature of this? or do you accept that this is what us 'infidels' deserve?

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Hi there

Arabic is a complex language and the poetic nature of the Quran makes it even more difficult to analyze/read for a beginner. In fact, many of the translated quran don't really capture exactly what the text is saying.

It is best to consult an expert in pre-Islamic Arabic who can give a better picture of what the text is saying.

Although you can read and English translation of the text, you need some sort of supplement to understand the setting under which those verses were revealed.

If you are interested, I can provided you with a series of audio lectures that address all these controversial verses... such as those on stoning, cutting hand if you steal, infidels...etc. These lectures are in English and can give much better details than I can...

please let me know and I can pm the links, or maybe even post them here.......

by all means post them. seems to me that these 'experts' could constrew these passages any which way they wanted. what is to stop them?

i have read alot of islamic verses and their translations and they all seem pretty damn evil to me. but that must just be my 'beginners outlook' eh?

(April 22, 2011 at 5:53 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: i have read alot of islamic verses and their translations and they all seem pretty damn evil to me. but that must just be my 'beginners outlook' eh?

Its unfortunate that if you Google about Islam, you'll probably come across with the most out-of-context verses and therefore being turned off completely by the religion.

I suggest to do more research, to find more about a certain religion. It like avoiding to read about Catholicism just because of all the pedophilia news in the media. As I mentioned earlier, the powerful can no longer hijack a religion but can only demonize it.

Here is a link, it has lecture based on any controversial issue you can think of:

Pork, alchohol, racisim, niqab, cutting hand, burqa, boob quake, miss USA, christ, john the baptist, dating, sex, friendship, family, suicide,...etc.

http://www.sayedammar.com/sayedammarnakshc.html

I think the lecture most relevant to your post is #164.

There are other great lecturers on the internet/youtube aswell, the more you search the more answer you'll get...

hope it helps

(April 22, 2011 at 6:12 am)ruhollah Wrote:

(April 22, 2011 at 5:53 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: i have read alot of islamic verses and their translations and they all seem pretty damn evil to me. but that must just be my 'beginners outlook' eh?

Its unfortunate that if you Google about Islam, you'll probably come across with the most out-of-context verses and therefore being turned off completely by the religion.

lol well that's an unfortunate coincidence isn't it!

Quote:I suggest to do more research, to find more about a certain religion. It like avoiding to read about Catholicism just because of all the pedophilia news in the media. As I mentioned earlier, the powerful can no longer hijack a religion but can only demonize it.

I have looked into the quran and islam plenty enough to know that much like the bible it is simply a book filled with poetic children's stories. except in the quran these stories seem to be far darker, and any questioning of the words in this book will likely be retorted with 'infidels must be slaughtered' or 'muhammed murdered the unbelievers' etc.
If the religion was as peaceful as you claim, then there would be no possible way that people could 'hijack' or 'demonize' it. the problem you have is that your book does say plenty of terrible things. I think it's only fair that these such things SHOULD be brought to light by the media.

Quote:Here is a link, it has lecture based on any controversial issue you can think of:

Pork, alchohol, racisim, niqab, cutting hand, burqa, boob quake, miss USA, christ, john the baptist, dating, sex, friendship, family, suicide,...etc.

http://www.sayedammar.com/sayedammarnakshc.html

I think the lecture most relevant to your post is #164.

There are other great lecturers on the internet/youtube aswell, the more you search the more answer you'll get...

hope it helps

The man you have shown me to is a muslim. this makes him incredibly biast to defend the verses in any way he can.
I am currently listening to his 'lecture' but it just seems like nonsensical rambilng so far.

If you can find me an expert which is NOT muslim who has dissected the quran and proven that the quran is all peaceful then i would be grateful.
My guess is you will be searching for a while.

(April 22, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: If you can find me an expert which is NOT muslim who has dissected the quran and proven that the quran is all peaceful then i would be grateful.
My guess is you will be searching for a while.

listen Napoleon

all I can say is either go to your local university or a local mosque if you have lengthy concerns.
Write letters to these people....... they want people who write, not yell, or call, but write

There are many authors, just Google. For example, Michael H. Hart.

Like I said, this religion is all about making peace with yourself. Life is not all rainbow and sunshine.......the Quran gives clear guidelines on how approach life to "survive" with a positive mindset. It doesn't demand its followers to force non-followers to follow them.

(April 22, 2011 at 7:04 am)ruhollah Wrote:

(April 22, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: If you can find me an expert which is NOT muslim who has dissected the quran and proven that the quran is all peaceful then i would be grateful.
My guess is you will be searching for a while.

listen Napoleon

all I can say is either go to your local university or a local mosque if you have lengthy concerns.
Write letters to these people....... they want people who write, not yell, or call, but write

There are many authors, just Google. For example, Michael H. Hart.

Like I said, this religion is all about making peace with yourself. Life is not all rainbow and sunshine.......the Quran gives clear guidelines on how approach life to "survive" with a positive mindset. It doesn't demand its followers to force non-followers to follow them.

what couldnt find one yourself? hahahaa thought not

Just Google, for example, Michael H. Hart.

oh, and mr. michael h hart? this the same guy who proposed splitting america into three parts, seperating the whites, the blacks and the rest? hahahahaha damn you are seriously funny

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and you refer to him because he published a book of most influencial people and put muhammad at the top? what the fuck does that prove?

(April 22, 2011 at 7:10 am)ruhollah Wrote: Just Google, for example, Michael H. Hart.

And??

So was Adolf Hitler...big deal.

Just because one author claims your prophet was one of the most influential people in history coen't claim that he was a force for good. One could argue the same for Adolf Hitler.