(June 24, 2016 at 11:41 am)Minimalist Wrote:

(June 24, 2016 at 11:14 am)Tiberius Wrote: Now that Cameron has resigned, what are the odds that Boris Johnson will be the new leader of the Conservative party and therefore Prime Minister? I've predicted that for several years now, but I never thought it would happen in this way. Boris is generally well-liked by his party, and he's just won a major political victory.

For that matter what are the odds that Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales will bail on Britain?

Quite high for Scotland, unlikely for Northern Ireland and very unlikely for Wales at the moment. And the likelihood of a civil war that I joked about earlier is low, so it's either I swallow my pride and be totally Scottish or move when the referendum comes.

(June 24, 2016 at 11:43 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: Maybe we're headed to a system of fiefdoms and hedge knights.

Or a system of Knights Who Say "Ni" and shrubberies...

(June 24, 2016 at 11:27 am)Constable Dorfl Wrote: From what you've given, the "findings" are based of self reporting surveys and studies done on small groups (the largest single group was 43 people) with no controls and no longitudinal data (i.e. the studies lasted a couple of weeks and no more). Frankly when findings are made of stuff this sketchy, they should be discarded.

Anyway to get back to the substance of the matter, why do you say the EU is a dictatorship when it is unwilling to listen to bad science?

The USA have "freedom of Speech" the ECHR have "freedom of expression" basically both have the same objectives ...

Both protect commercial advertising to a lesser extent than political speech (note the protection is even greater in the USA), however it is still protected for very good reasons ... advertising can be broken down into 3 

(1) political expression, which enjoys the highest protection.

(2) commercial expression, which enjoys the lowest protection (e.g. “purely commercial” advertising).

(3) A third category of expression is the so­called mixed expression (which enjoys nearly the same as political expression), including both commercial and 
noncommercial statements.

Once you accept that any form of free speech can be banned without "Established" grounds it is a slippery slope.

How would you feel about banning commercial advertising on say Condoms because the authority can show it may cause a reaction from the silicone or the lubricant. Just based on opinions that have not been established?

Note the EU made the regulations against the recommendations of their own experts ... The evidence has been growing against their opinions since (including many Lords, Public Health UK, etc etc).... however that the discussion is still being debated shows the grounds have not been "Established"

Note I am a smoker not a vaper, and I am only concerned with the advertising ban ....

(June 24, 2016 at 11:50 am)Losty Wrote:

(June 24, 2016 at 11:42 am)Bella Morte Wrote: I don't really know what to say to that.

Well you see...Americans love wars and riots and guns...especially when we don't have to deal with the fall out, but even when we do...we can always blame the Muslims....

I see Scotland being smart enough to make the right choice this time around.

Indeed. Depends though, what you see as the right choice probably isn't going to be my definition of the right choice. But hey let's see what happens. All we can do.

(June 24, 2016 at 11:56 am)Bella Morte Wrote:

(June 24, 2016 at 11:50 am)Losty Wrote: Well you see...Americans love wars and riots and guns...especially when we don't have to deal with the fall out, but even when we do...we can always blame the Muslims....

I see Scotland being smart enough to make the right choice this time around.

Indeed. Depends though, what you see as the right choice probably isn't going to be my definition of the right choice. But hey let's see what happens. All we can do.

Just like an average American, disagree with me on everything. Are you sure you're not American?

At this point in politics I think I'd be happiest if I just become a Scottish citizen and voted for independence and rejoining the EU. Haha. Hey Bella, you'd looove South Georgia, wanna trade citizenships?

(June 24, 2016 at 2:35 am)Tiberius Wrote: There's a reason we elect representatives: because we want them to make educated decisions for us. The average person does not understand economics on a large scale, and that includes myself. I would have voted "Remain" purely because the experts overwhelmingly supported that option, but I would have preferred no referendum at all.

To some extent I agree. With respect to the USA, people tend to forget that it is a Constitutional Republic even though representatives are elected officials. At the same time, when power is concentrated in a small group of unaccountable officials, entrenched interests gain disproportionate influence.

Experts, captains of industry, and politicians tend to overwhelming be members of an elite class that are not directly affected by the decisions they make. They live in gated communities while unassimilated immigrants move into working class neighborhoods. They have armed guards but disarm vulnerable convenience store owners. They don't notice a 1% increase in fuel taxes when filling their Audi's while the extra expense is sorely felt by the independent long-haul trucker. A large corporation hires administrators while the corner baker has to work nights and weekends to complete government paperwork. The same laws that purportedly protect the public seem to serve more like barriers to entry for ambitious people doing the everyday work of making a living in their local communities.

This isn't to say that Brexit was good or bad in the long run. Just that ordinary people are not a top priority to hedge fund managers, large financial institutions and the CEOs of multinational corporations. And prior to the Brexit vote their contempt for the commoners was palatable even in the US. It takes effort, grit, vision and ingenuity to make a living by running a family farm, a small shop, or land-lording a small 3-flat. They may not know a whole lot about macro-economics, but you can be certain that everyday folks know what their customers want and how to give their best to serve them. I can understand ordinary people not having confidence that the rich and powerful are looking out for them.

(June 24, 2016 at 7:47 am)madog Wrote: [...]As a vaper, I have been fighting a directive that blatantly violates Art.10 of the ECHR by banning the freedom of expression (speech) of electronic cigarette users ... If they can do it to vapers to save Big Tobacco they can do it to anyone 

(June 24, 2016 at 11:54 am)madog Wrote: [...]Note I am a smoker not a vaper, and I am only concerned with the advertising ban ....

bold mine

Hmmm... Am I missing something? 

(June 24, 2016 at 11:41 am)Minimalist Wrote:

(June 24, 2016 at 11:14 am)Tiberius Wrote: Now that Cameron has resigned, what are the odds that Boris Johnson will be the new leader of the Conservative party and therefore Prime Minister? I've predicted that for several years now, but I never thought it would happen in this way. Boris is generally well-liked by his party, and he's just won a major political victory.

For that matter what are the odds that Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales will bail on Britain?

Not Wales. Most of them voted to leave. Scotland will. Northern Ireland ... no one apart from the Northern Irish understands what goes on there. Something to do with religion and the Queen though. It's tribal.

(June 24, 2016 at 1:08 am)Bella Morte Wrote: Brilliant. We've regained our sovereignty and I am pleased with the result.

Its like watching a lorry with no breaks career down a hill towards a full playground. We all know there will be horror and destruction and there is realistically no way to stop it, all we can do is watch.

The UK is fucked for ever.

(June 24, 2016 at 12:01 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I can understand ordinary people not having confidence that the rich and powerful are looking out for them.

Well, they don't. But make no mistake. The right wing populists being behind the Brexit campaign and behind other nationalist movements in Europe, don't look out for the common people either. It just so happens that the common people are easy prey for the pied pipers. Even more so in times of insecurity. But if you needed any further evidence, Nigel Farage already rowed back on his promise to fund the NHS, after the vote was in. He wouldn't have been in a position to do so anyway, but he didn't even feel the need to keep up appearances.