(June 30, 2016 at 1:08 pm)Drich Wrote: What if they were Christians who said this and billions of Christian who embraced a doctrine of killing gays would you be concerned with their safty?

Why the hypocrisy?

Yes, why indeed?

And I'm sure you have some quotation for the billions - as in billions of muslims, as you certainly want to insinuate.

And by the way, hate the sin but not the sinner is still shedding crocodile tears to cover your gotya gloating. Others of your ilk have been more outspoken on the issue, in actually celebrating the act. So, according to your own logic, Allah did your god's work.

Also, you should make a choice at some time. Is it radical islam that drove the shooter or his supressed homosexuality? Could it be that he had been the same mental wreck as someone being brought up in a radical christian environment and then goes out to shoot up some abortion clinic or doctor? Could it be that humans are more complex than your very own bible thumping?

And please, spare me to comeback of you assuming to speak for christianity. It would be a cold day in hell when every christian stoops to your level of depravity. Or to the one of these celebrating pastor abominations.

(June 30, 2016 at 10:16 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Does this 'central authority' have a name? Sunni High Command? How do they keep sects like the Ahmadis or Ismailis from forming? No, wait, they can't do a damn thing about it because they don't exist. Any Imam can preach his own interpretation of Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_leaders

I'm sorry are you under the impression that the Ahmadis and or the Ismailis are branched off the Sunni sect? First of all the Ahmadiyya are not muslim as they do not believe mo-hammy was the final prophet of God. they follow the teaching of some other goat man who came after.

To answer your question, The Leadership of the sunni 'control' sub sects from froming by KILLING the 'apostate/heretics.' That is why 90% of all muslims are Sunni, because no one in the that sect has any other choice. That is also why Pakistan and even those in Iran are fighting ISIS (sunni Islam) because they too are under the threat of extinction by the sunni as most of them are Shia, which does contain many, many divisions/sub sects like the Ismailis.

But again, the vast majority of islam is not shia it is sunni, which includes the members of ISIS and most muslims in the US and Europe.

Quote:That's why there's Universal Sufism, Quranism (ditch the hadiths), Imams who support separation of government and religion, Islamic Modernism; and groups like Muslims for Progressive Values and the Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity. Because of the absolute control of the Central Authority of Islam.

Not in the Sunni sect which is what i am talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam

Everything you said is correct... but it is correct about shia islam not the sunnis. There is a leadership structure and the Imams of Sunni Islam are well versed and well rehearsed. They speak as one if they are sunni.

What do you think fuels and funds ISIS? are you of the Obama camp in trying to disregard them as a "rag tag bunch of trouble makers?" the "JV team?" To assemble, fund and support a fighting force that size despite the best efforts of the West, and to call it the ISLAMIC STATE Demands a strong organized support structure. despite what you think you've been told about them, or what you tell yourself so you can sleep at night.

(June 30, 2016 at 10:20 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Drich Wrote:again moron, christianity is splintered which means the followers of this pastor are limited.

Islam is not.. The man who called for the murder of gays in this area speaks for billions, as 90% of that religion are united under him and men like him all over the world!!! His interpretations are LAW for Billions of muslims as Islam is not splintered as Christianity is splintered!

That pastor may be speaking to a couple of hundred people world wide verse this Imam who has the ear of billions...
how many more times do I need to say this before you guys incorporate this into your thinking? With this video you are comparing the fringes of Christianity to MAINSTREAM ISLAM!!!

Let me put it another way:

Now what is more likly to happen? the man speaking to billions reaching just the right person in just the right place to carry out a successful terror attack? or the guy speaking to 30 people most of whom are related in someway (like the west borough baptists? who has more power? what group present the greatest danger, simply by sheer numbers of potential possibilities?

Except the 90% of Sunnis are far from united or monolithic. So there's that. Did you know that most Sunni-majority countries don't have the death penalty for homosexuality? What could possibly be the explanation for this deviation from Sunni High Command?

citation please. Because as I have read/referenced Homosexuality is a sin that is indeed punishable by death in all 4 forms of the Sunni jurisprudence. Some allow a simple 100 lash beating for first offenders, but none take death off the table. Even the more merciful (100 lash version) prescribe death if caught again.. the others mainly differ on the way homosexuals are supposed to die. none of which is by old age in your own bed.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality

That's not, in any way, different than your own divine laws...so why bitch about it...oh yea king of the tq?

(June 30, 2016 at 1:05 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote:

(June 30, 2016 at 12:54 pm)Drich Wrote: Has this happened in the last 100 years? 200? So when your ready to compare apples to apples feel free to rejoin the conversation.

It's happened in the last month following Orlando. There were far-right Christians coming out the woodwoork all over the place to praise the attack. The day after Orlando, a white boy (presumably a Christian) was caught heading towards L.A Gay Pride with explosives and guns planning to blow it up.

Homosexuality has only become legalised in most Western countries within the last 60 years too. This has not happened because of The West's benign Christian religion, it's happened through secularism at the expense of Christian extremism (which is as barbaric, violent and abusive as Islamic fundamentalism). It's not that there are no longer Priests, Bishops and even candidates for The Papacy that believe homosexuality should be punishable by death, it's that they're not allowed to air those views in the 21st Century without an educated, rational, secular society charging them with hate speech. When the Muslim world eventually wakes up and does the same to their Imams and Islamic "scholars", their situation with human rights is going to improve too.

Bishops and popes moron bishops and popes...

As in when was the last time a bishop or pope (someone in leadership authority of a very large mass of religious followers) demanded the death or genocide of a specific group in the name of Jesus Christ?

(June 30, 2016 at 4:31 pm)abaris Wrote:

(June 30, 2016 at 1:08 pm)Drich Wrote: What if they were Christians who said this and billions of Christian who embraced a doctrine of killing gays would you be concerned with their safty?

Why the hypocrisy?

Yes, why indeed?

And I'm sure you have some quotation for the billions - as in billions of muslims, as you certainly want to insinuate.

and i posted book chapter and verse out of the hadith and the koran for you. Meaning these are active not passive (as with OT judaism) commands. Meaning good muslims are supposed to act and keep these commands inorder to be deemed 'good muslims.'

Quote:And by the way, hate the sin but not the sinner is still shedding crocodile tears to cover your gotya gloating. Others of your ilk have been more outspoken on the issue, in actually celebrating the act. So, according to your own logic, Allah did your god's work.

I have been on this web site for several years, and have laid out my unappologetic views on homosexuality several times every year. Show me one instance where I EVER said a gay man or woman should be put to death? Or ever once point to scripture and commended those for using OT judism as an excuse for killing gay people.

If you can't produce even one close example I will thank you for not pushing you hatred of christianity on to me for those things I never once even condoned in any way shape or form. I have always said that a homosexual's sin of choice is no different than anyone else who struggled with sexual sin. It is not the unforgivable sin and those who treat it as such will answer to God for it, as He will measure them by the standard in which they measure others, and I can promise they will not be able to measure up.

Quote:Also, you should make a choice at some time. Is it radical islam that drove the shooter or his supressed homosexuality? Could it be that he had been the same mental wreck as someone being brought up in a radical christian environment and then goes out to shoot up some abortion clinic or doctor? Could it be that humans are more complex than your very own bible thumping?

But that's the thing sport... That is my whole point had you been paying attention... He was not brought up in radical islam... The Normal middle of the road islam teaches what you deem a radical idea. to them this is john 3:16

Quote:And please, spare me to comeback of you assuming to speak for christianity. It would be a cold day in hell when every christian stoops to your level of depravity. Or to the one of these celebrating pastor abominations.

which is the other point I was making...
Because christianity is splintered we have radical faction on the far right as well as the far left...

And because Islam is not splintered then what ever act (like this man's personal jihad) Is condoned and even praised is sunni Islam across the board!!!

(June 30, 2016 at 4:53 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 30, 2016 at 1:05 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: It's happened in the last month following Orlando. There were far-right Christians coming out the woodwoork all over the place to praise the attack. The day after Orlando, a white boy (presumably a Christian) was caught heading towards L.A Gay Pride with explosives and guns planning to blow it up.

Homosexuality has only become legalised in most Western countries within the last 60 years too. This has not happened because of The West's benign Christian religion, it's happened through secularism at the expense of Christian extremism (which is as barbaric, violent and abusive as Islamic fundamentalism). It's not that there are no longer Priests, Bishops and even candidates for The Papacy that believe homosexuality should be punishable by death, it's that they're not allowed to air those views in the 21st Century without an educated, rational, secular society charging them with hate speech. When the Muslim world eventually wakes up and does the same to their Imams and Islamic "scholars", their situation with human rights is going to improve too.

Bishops and popes moron bishops and popes...

As in when was the last time a bishop or pope (someone in leadership authority of a very large mass of religious followers) demanded the death or genocide of a specific group in the name of Jesus Christ?

Bishop, Pope, Priest, Deacon, the fuck does it matter? They're still representatives of The Church. And it doesn't invalidate anything I said. To think that Christianity is some benign "religion of peace" just because it's now (in the 20th and 21st Centuries) relatively less violent than Islam is jejune.

And just because leaders of Christianity "only" oppose LGBT marriage instead of actively advocating for death as a punishment doesn't make them "progressive" either. It's not even just about gay people, we still have contemporary Popes and other leaders opposing abortion and womens' agency of their reproduction. Even if it's not "violent", that's a problem.

I'd say that it -is- violent, when their opposition leads to a back-alley abortion. Might as well just start punching unwed mothers in the stomach when you see them.

(June 30, 2016 at 5:16 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: And just because leaders of Christianity "only" oppose LGBT marriage instead of actively advocating for death as a punishment doesn't make them "progressive" either. It's not even just about gay people, we still have contemporary Popes and other leaders opposing abortion and womens' agency of their reproduction. Even if it's not "violent", that's a problem.

There is no such a thing as leaders of christianity. There are only leaders of different branches of christianity. Some only opposing gay marriage, some outright celebrating the slaughter, some actively calling for the extermination of gays.

Pretty much a spitting image of the muslim world, but that seems to escape Drippy's notice while riding the high horse. He of all persons, being the poster boy of disgusting bible interpretations.

Although King James had a committee to write his version of the Bible the guy who wrote the anti-homosexual screed in Leviticus probably included it as an attack against King James himself, who was a queer as they came.  

http://rictornorton.co.uk/jamesi.htm