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Is Islam A Death Cult?
#1
Is Islam A Death Cult?
In the Quran and hadith, martyrs are first and foremost those who have died in jihad, “fighting in the path of God,” those who have perished violently in battle.

Certainly, death in battle is not the only way to achieve martyrdom in Islam. Those who die unjustly or whose lives are truncated by some act of God are martyrs as well. Someone who is killed for their money, someone who drowns, someone who dies building a mosque or in a structural collapse, a woman who dies in childbirth, the victims of a plague, someone who is killed defending their family, someone who is killed for speaking truth to an unjust ruler, who dies in prison or who stands alone for truth in corrupted times; even (according to one hadith) someone who falls in love and represses their desire with fatal consequences—all these are martyrs.

Source: (https://tinyurl.com/3xtv3b39)

In the article he goes on to take a very erudite and western interpretation of the Quran and the meaning of Duty.

"What if Muslims restored this idea of ‘bearing witness’ to the word martyrdom? What if we thought of martyrdom as bearing witness by being willing to die in the name of that God Who tells us that saving one life is like saving all of humanity, that standing up to injustice is the highest act of faith, that feeding the stranger and the orphan, and sheltering the wayfarer are the solemn duties of every individual? The Quran (41:33) tells us, “What better word is there than calling out to God, doing a good deed and saying, Indeed I am one of those who submits to God.”"
"I'm thick." - Me
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#2
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
(April 1, 2023 at 5:07 am)Goosebump Wrote: In the Quran and hadith, martyrs are first and foremost those who have died in jihad, “fighting in the path of God,” those who have perished violently in battle.

Certainly, death in battle is not the only way to achieve martyrdom in Islam. Those who die unjustly or whose lives are truncated by some act of God are martyrs as well. Someone who is killed for their money, someone who drowns, someone who dies building a mosque or in a structural collapse, a woman who dies in childbirth, the victims of a plague, someone who is killed defending their family, someone who is killed for speaking truth to an unjust ruler, who dies in prison or who stands alone for truth in corrupted times; even (according to one hadith) someone who falls in love and represses their desire with fatal consequences—all these are martyrs.

Source: (https://tinyurl.com/3xtv3b39)

In the article he goes on to take a very erudite and western interpretation of the Quran and the meaning of Duty.

"What if Muslims restored this idea of ‘bearing witness’ to the word martyrdom? What if we thought of martyrdom as bearing witness by being willing to die in the name of that God Who tells us that saving one life is like saving all of humanity, that standing up to injustice is the highest act of faith, that feeding the stranger and the orphan, and sheltering the wayfarer are the solemn duties of every individual? The Quran (41:33) tells us, “What better word is there than calling out to God, doing a good deed and saying, Indeed I am one of those who submits to God.”"

Certainly, death in battle is not the only way to achieve martyrdom in Islam. Those who die unjustly or whose lives are truncated by some act of God are martyrs as well.
 
- No they are not. Actually this idea of martyrdom comes from the Greeks. The term is “eu teleuein” (to end well). The reason for that is simple: if you have an army and everybody thinks “Oh I’m not going to see my children again / There are things in this life I really wanted to do etc.” that army will start walking backward instead of moving forward.
+ 2) A child who is fighting Leukemia is also fighting like crazy. So there is no “higher” afterlife for anyone who dies in battle. Still: If you die protecting others, that is still good karma for you. So it is important to see these differences.
I did check your source but it’s not the way we see it. The encyclopedia of Islam says otherwise. Martyrdom is for soldiers only.
 
The Quranic Refference to that is: “Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, “ 22 / 58-59
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaheed
 
"What if Muslims restored this idea of ‘bearing witness’ to the word martyrdom? What if we thought of martyrdom as bearing witness by being willing to die in the name of that God Who tells us that saving one life is like saving all of humanity, that standing up to injustice is the highest act of faith, that feeding the stranger and the orphan, and sheltering the wayfarer are the solemn duties of every individual? The Quran (41:33) tells us, “What better word is there than calling out to God, doing a good deed and saying, Indeed I am one of those who submits to God.”"”
 
-       Something like that Smile
 
The main issue in religious thought in our time is superficiality and constant preoccupation with issues that don’t really matter a lot. If we go back 100 years, the belief systems of many people all around the world where not entirely correct (that’s my understanding) but in the 1920’s, the ordinary Christian or ordinary Muslim had this degree of sincerity we don’t have today. Ex: When you swore on the Bible, it actually meant something to most people. In that time you wouldn’t just cross you fingers and say whatever you wanted. So this sincere devotion alone was leading people somewhere. And this is why conservative people all around the world are seeking some form of “return to the past” which is nothing but a pipe dream in practical terms.
 
   So today you have an option between being a phony and/or superficial type of believer, or to go with the flow and have a more in-depth approach toward religious / spiritual teachings. My path is the second path.
 
   So in this subject: The message I am reading is “Don’t be afraid to defend your country if you have to. For I am here and I am the One who is seeing everything”.
 
   That’s my way of reading this singular message. But, I told you about the phony / insincere approach to religious teachings. They will take the same text and come out with something like “Those who died in the earthquake in February in Eastern Turkey are Martyrs”
 
Meaning: “It’s not really our fault you know. We issued permits for inadequate permits. Now 100,000 persons have died because of us and our inadequate policies on construction rules. But they are martyrs. Got did this. Not us. We were just sitting in our Islamic ally segregated 5 star hotels (I’ll explain what that is in a later post), sniffing cocaine in our luxury cars while pretending to be the true adherents to Islam”.
 
- So it’s not their fault. It is God who told them to do such things (or something like that).
 
So my faith is: We need to be more intellectual, more discerning and less lazy than our forefathers (I mean believers all around the world whatever their faith is). Because sincerity is gone. So if we chose to be devoted. We need to see what this thing we devote ourselves to is. Than they can be results. That’s how I see it.
[Image: 7151bc275de2d3d422106a4008215efe.jpg]

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#3
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
Sincerity is gone, in large part, because people have become more intellectual and less lazy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#4
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
To simplify a very complex subject as you seem to have no problem doing as siting a Wikipedia article, why is your way: "So my faith is:" bla bla bla, some how translated to what the wider Muslim world reads into the passages of the Quran? You offer nothing but your personal and anecdotal experience. That in no way invalidates what the article spoke of or what I'm asking. You are one, they are many. You cannot project your own experience onto others.

I respect that you see the Quran as you do, it is one of the less harmful interpretations. But it is in no way a wide spread interpretation. It is your own. As you stated.

I'm sure you see me as just some other infidel that is ignorant of the teachings of Mohmed ect ect. I get it. My land lord is Muslim. He comes home to pray and manages most of his prayers. I once interrupted him and his brother assured me it was fine. I'm a man after all. I watched as he kneeled and bowed and said his words. I'm also a minor in geology so I have a decent understanding of the globe and what direction I'm facing on it. You can guess where this is going. I couldn't resist and asked my landlord if he knew he wasn't facing mecca.

He insisted he was. Thankfully we have these handy phones in our pockets and I pulled mine out and showed him the little used compass app. With it and google maps I was able to show him he was praying more or less to Denmark. Long story Long he prays directly to mecca now.

Now if a very peaceful and devote man such as him got that bit wrong... doesn't it stand to reason... that other bits might be misinterpreted? or frankly correctly interpreted?
"I'm thick." - Me
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#5
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
(April 1, 2023 at 8:10 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Sincerity is gone, in large part, because people have become more intellectual and less lazy.

Not really. I was talking about the more ordinary people. Not intellectuals. In sociology they refer to this as “The demystification of the world”. And I think it happened mostly in the beginning of the 20th century.
 
So I’m talking about a change in paradigm. I think you are understanding.
 
There is a good source on the issue of martyrdom:
It says:
We may therefore conclude that there is neither jihad nor martyrdom outside the realm of truth, that martyrdom applies only when it is preceded by jihad, that jihad is an inclusive struggle for the cause of the truth, that a mujahid dies the death of a martyr even though he does not fall on the battlefield. He dies as a martyr even though he is not killed, on the condition that he stays loyal to the divine truth and stands ready to fight for the truth and to defend it at all costs, even at the cost of his own life. He is a mujahid while he lives, and a martyr if he dies or is killed for it.”
 
https://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/vol-12...rdom-islam
[Image: 7151bc275de2d3d422106a4008215efe.jpg]

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#6
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
Might as well be. Who wants to live without bacon anyway?
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#7
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
(April 1, 2023 at 8:22 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: We may therefore conclude that there is neither jihad nor martyrdom outside the realm of truth, that martyrdom applies only when it is preceded by jihad, that jihad is an inclusive struggle for the cause of the truth, that a mujahid dies the death of a martyr even though he does not fall on the battlefield. He dies as a martyr even though he is not killed, on the condition that he stays loyal to the divine truth and stands ready to fight for the truth and to defend it at all costs, even at the cost of his own life. He is a mujahid while he lives, and a martyr if he dies or is killed for it.”

You can read that and see virtue. But try and read it as a infidel. IT implies that anyone claiming Jihad is claiming truth. It's right there in the first sentence. So anything after, death from martyrdom is in service to truth/jihad. It's not that slippery a slope to suicide bombers. AkA: A death Cult. "He dies a martyr even though he is not killed" implying some Devine armor that is nonsense. And if he dies? Well he didn't believe enough in the truth. The Armor didn't work for him. "He is mujahid while he lives, and a martyr if he dies or is killed for it." So he's a struggler and striver while he lives (that's what Mujahid means) and he's elevated to a saint hood (that's what martyr means) if he dies.

Yah no emphasis on death in this cult at all. Pfft.
"I'm thick." - Me
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#8
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
(April 1, 2023 at 8:22 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Not really. I was talking about the more ordinary people. Not intellectuals. In sociology they refer to this as “The demystification of the world”. And I think it happened mostly in the beginning of the 20th century.
 
So I’m talking about a change in paradigm. I think you are understanding.
 
There is a good source on the issue of martyrdom:
It says:
We may therefore conclude that there is neither jihad nor martyrdom outside the realm of truth, that martyrdom applies only when it is preceded by jihad, that jihad is an inclusive struggle for the cause of the truth, that a mujahid dies the death of a martyr even though he does not fall on the battlefield. He dies as a martyr even though he is not killed, on the condition that he stays loyal to the divine truth and stands ready to fight for the truth and to defend it at all costs, even at the cost of his own life. He is a mujahid while he lives, and a martyr if he dies or is killed for it.”
 
https://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/vol-12...rdom-islam

You can conclude whatever you like, but mere reality stands in the way of that conclusion.  I'm all for contemporary abrahamics finding whatever way they can to reject the ridiculous shit their magic books contend while still feeling faithful - ofc. Still, I think it's a fucking tragedy if the best islamic academics you can grasp for come up with some risible self serving shit like that.

As for the opq, I think every religion with a heavy emphasis on afterlives is never more than one purity purge or bout of performative piety away from being a death cult. They're the incubators for death cults. So, is islam a death cult? I guess it depends on what day it is. Was it a really tough monday? Dial the death cult clock closer to midnight. Hope for a good tuesday.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#9
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
When do you declare unilateral victory over your vanquished foes in these forums?
"I'm thick." - Me
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#10
RE: Is Islam A Death Cult?
Toot that trumpet timely. Be wary though, all the sharp hailing may turn out just to be flat.
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