(July 8, 2016 at 3:08 am)robvalue Wrote: I have noticed a trend that atheists in general tend to be better critical thinkers, but I haven't had enough data to draw a meaningful conclusion on that. It seems theists tend to believe in other irrational things more than atheists, which makes sense, but I couldn't be sure about that either.

For the most part I blame indoctrination. They have been programmed to believe it, before they learned how to properly think or evaluate beliefs. It's in there deep, like a tumour, but it disguises itself perfectly as rational thought. It is also really good at throwing up any kind of mental defence to avoid being discovered or scrutinised.

I know the feeling of addressing beliefs you have been indoctrinated with. Mine just weren't religious. It's extremely uncomfortable, and it's very tempting to leave them alone and just accept the overwhelming emotional manipulation that makes you believe it must be true.

I would fully expect that if you took a group of children, developed their critical thinking and didn't indoctrinate them, that the overwhelming majority would never end up joining a religion. Theists are mainly victims, in my estimation.

You can have a very intelligent person in front of you, and have them change into a total moron when you bring up certain subjects. It's so obvious and jarring, it's painful to watch. Religion is one of those subjects, but it isn't the only one. You can tell when the person's beliefs are based on emotion and not logic, because their mindset totally changes. It shows how well the human brain can compartmentalise. They probably don't realise they're doing it, most of the time at least.

I appriciate you saying religion is not something exclusively for morons.
Your posts are usually the most rational ones.

Thank you

I certainly don't think that's the case. I'm sure there are many theists way smarter than me, however you choose to measure such things.

(July 10, 2016 at 8:10 am)Sappho Wrote: I appriciate you saying religion is not something exclusively for morons.[...]

Of course it's not exclusively for morons - there's room in religion also for pedophiles, frauds, hypocrites and crazy people...

I think sometimes it has more to do with social acceptance and community than it has to do with gullibility. I think a great deal of the time religion is more politically driven than driven by the "praiseworthy" characteristics of faith and obedience.

There is no doubt that a theist can be intelligent in other areas of life, but what I fail to understand is how they can absolve themselves from that intelligence when it comes to religion.

(July 10, 2016 at 6:55 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: There is no doubt that a theist can be intelligent in other areas of life, but what I fail to understand is how they can absolve themselves from that intelligence when it comes to religion.

Perhaps because even though humans are inherently logical and investigative, religion satisfies the cravings of human emotion. A lot like the addict, the religious flee to churches to receive their opiate messages of promise and safety. You cannot derive this sort of band aid comfort from the cruel facts of the natural world.

(July 10, 2016 at 7:03 pm)LivingNumbers6.626 Wrote: Perhaps because even though humans are inherently logical and investigative, religion satisfies the cravings of human emotion. A lot like the addict, the religious flee to churches to receive their opiate messages of promise and safety. You cannot derive this sort of band aid comfort from the cruel facts of the natural world.

Rather than allow them to drug themselves with religion, we should be capable of finding a way to ensure reality becomes their salvation.

(July 8, 2016 at 3:08 am)robvalue Wrote: I have noticed a trend that atheists in general tend to be better critical thinkers, but I haven't had enough data to draw a meaningful conclusion on that. It seems theists tend to believe in other irrational things more than atheists, which makes sense, but I couldn't be sure about that either.

For the most part I blame indoctrination. They have been programmed to believe it, before they learned how to properly think or evaluate beliefs. It's in there deep, like a tumour, but it disguises itself perfectly as rational thought. It is also really good at throwing up any kind of mental defence to avoid being discovered or scrutinised.

I know the feeling of addressing beliefs you have been indoctrinated with. Mine just weren't religious. It's extremely uncomfortable, and it's very tempting to leave them alone and just accept the overwhelming emotional manipulation that makes you believe it must be true.

I would fully expect that if you took a group of children, developed their critical thinking and didn't indoctrinate them, that the overwhelming majority would never end up joining a religion. Theists are mainly victims, in my estimation.

You can have a very intelligent person in front of you, and have them change into a total moron when you bring up certain subjects. It's so obvious and jarring, it's painful to watch. Religion is one of those subjects, but it isn't the only one. You can tell when the person's beliefs are based on emotion and not logic, because their mindset totally changes. It shows how well the human brain can compartmentalise. They probably don't realise they're doing it, most of the time at least.

I agree 100% with this.
It's no accident that most churches have youth groups. Children, by their very nature, must be gullible and must do as the adults tell them as their physical survival depends on it. And very young children don't have the capacity to differentiate between reality and fantasy. They are low hanging fruit, ready for the picking by adults who want to perpetuate religion.

I was in at a playground a few years ago with my young child. There are many Slavic Christians living in my area and there was a Slavic family nearby. Two girls were on the playground - one about 10 years old said to a younger girl "You'll go to hell for that. It's in the bible." I have no idea what the younger girl wanted to do - maybe go backwards up the slide? But someone taught the older girl to say something like that. Did the younger girl question it? No, of course not.

Kids need to be taught to question things - not put into religious classes.

(July 8, 2016 at 2:18 am)Maelstrom Wrote: WHY THE FUCK ARE THEISTS SO FUCKING GULLIBLE?

Because if they weren't they'd be atheists [emoji6]

(July 9, 2016 at 5:07 am)Godschild Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 2:18 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Why do theists believe as they do,

We should instead be asking:

WHY THE FUCK ARE THEISTS SO FUCKING GULLIBLE?

You're welcome.

  We're not the ones falling to Satan's little tricks.

 GC

Nope. You're the ones who think Satan is a real entity.