I honestly don't understand what the coup has to do with reintroducing the death penalty... seems like a childish reaction (even considering it was a real attempt at a coup).
And I'm not comfortable with children running countries.... although... it seems to happen more often than not...

(July 19, 2016 at 5:48 am)pocaracas Wrote: I honestly don't understand what the coup has to do with reintroducing the death penalty... seems like a childish reaction (even considering it was a real attempt at a coup).
And I'm not comfortable with children running countries.... although... it seems to happen more often than not...

Why is it illogical? I guess there can't be any speculation over Erdogan wanting at least a Putin style democracy if not outright dictatorship.

(July 19, 2016 at 6:09 am)abaris Wrote:

(July 19, 2016 at 5:48 am)pocaracas Wrote: I honestly don't understand what the coup has to do with reintroducing the death penalty... seems like a childish reaction (even considering it was a real attempt at a coup).
And I'm not comfortable with children running countries.... although... it seems to happen more often than not...

Why is it illogical? I guess there can't be any speculation over Erdogan wanting at least a Putin style democracy if not outright dictatorship.

But why?
What would motivate him to institute a dictatorship?
Does he not know that such a move would have consequences, at the international level? Which will ultimately lead to a decline in his people's level of happiness. We are not in the early 20th century, when it was "easy" to lock down a country and keep the people in ignorance.... unless the people want to be ignorant...

(July 19, 2016 at 6:19 am)pocaracas Wrote: What would motivate him to institute a dictatorship?

What motivates anyone becoming a dictator?

I think that's the wrong question. If it was valid, why would there be dictators at all. That guy worked towards it since he came to office. Now he's got his final opening.

(July 19, 2016 at 6:23 am)abaris Wrote:

(July 19, 2016 at 6:19 am)pocaracas Wrote: What would motivate him to institute a dictatorship?

What motivates anyone becoming a dictator?

I think that's the wrong question. If it was valid, why would there be dictators at all. That guy worked towards it since he came to office. Now he's got his final opening.

Why is it the wrong question?
There has to be a motivation.

I know everyone wants to rule the world, but... it's not easy. This guy should be aware of how difficult to implement that is. Not only that, but, as history has shown repeatedly, it's not a sustainable form of government.
Sure, he's over 60yo.... so... he has 10, maybe 20 years ahead of him...
20 years of wrecking a country.
I know what that comes to look like.... to be 20 years behind everyone else... not nice.

(July 19, 2016 at 6:29 am)pocaracas Wrote: Why is it the wrong question?
There has to be a motivation.

Overblown Ego? Considering themselves a savior? Getting filthy rich on the expense of society? Being on a powertrip?

You name it and your guess is as good as mine.

(July 19, 2016 at 6:29 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(July 19, 2016 at 6:23 am)abaris Wrote: What motivates anyone becoming a dictator?

I think that's the wrong question. If it was valid, why would there be dictators at all. That guy worked towards it since he came to office. Now he's got his final opening.

Why is it the wrong question?
There has to be a motivation.

I know everyone wants to rule the world, but... it's not easy. This guy should be aware of how difficult to implement that is. Not only that, but, as history has shown repeatedly, it's not a sustainable form of government.
Sure, he's over 60yo.... so... he has 10, maybe 20 years ahead of him...
20 years of wrecking a country.
I know what that comes to look like.... to be 20 years behind everyone else... not nice.

What if it's an addiction to power? A lot of addicts have the mentality that it's different for them, those other addicts didn't have control of the situation.

(July 19, 2016 at 6:19 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(July 19, 2016 at 6:09 am)abaris Wrote: Why is it illogical? I guess there can't be any speculation over Erdogan wanting at least a Putin style democracy if not outright dictatorship.

But why?
What would motivate him to institute a dictatorship?
Does he not know that such a move would have consequences, at the international level? Which will ultimately lead to a decline in his people's level of happiness. We are not in the early 20th century, when it was "easy" to lock down a country and keep the people in ignorance.... unless the people want to be ignorant...

He is both an ottoman revanchist and an Islamist.   In his world dictatorship is proper, necessary, inseparable from reverence for hallowed tradition and sanctified by Allah.   That he personally would wield immense power would be to him as the vanity of doing god's work would be to the devoutly deranged egomaniac.

Personally he is a far closer analogue to hitler than Putin.  His vision for the Islamic world is probably not the yokelish ISIS vision of desert sheiks leading a return to the 7th century, but a quest-modernized imperial expansionist state that to the Ottoman Empire would be as the third Reich was to the Wilhelmina Reich.  All he lacks is Germany's economy, technology, and established military excellence to use as tools.  He probably see as an attainable objective a reconstituted, Islamic, socially regressive neo-Ottoman Empire, but one that has all of those tools with which to further aggrandize both itself and its vision of Islam.

"He"...
But a government is not composed of a single person. It would require a massive amount of support for that. Lots of people with the same mentality... Not to mention the military.
The same military that abaris says have, in the past, stepped up when such events were taking shape.

(July 19, 2016 at 8:01 am)pocaracas Wrote: The same military that abaris says have, in the past, stepped up when such events were taking shape.

Before he cleansed it for the first time. It was one of the first things he did when taking office. To replace the old staff with people of his own choosing. That's why I was rather surprised they did act at all, and hoped for the best. Yes, I was actually in support of this. He probably missed some, but not enough to turn this coup into a success.