Quote:These two quotes were what I meant when I said you answered your own question.

Ah, I see it now.
So what's wrong with finding your own way? I've never believed in god, and yet I've done no wrong. I've lead myself well. What's wrong with it?

Quote:These two quotes contradict each other. if good and evil are only concepts, then by what standard do you figure you've done 'good'?

They don't contradict because god is not included. Morality comes from us. We define it. We collectively agree on ethical standards. Live and let live. Basic respect and care for your fellow man is a common thing. Socially acceptable. Morality does not come from religion.
When I was little, I used to throw stones at passing cars, it was only till I put myself in their shoes that I learnt of the bad I was doing. From there I became better. Not everyone is capable of leading oneself, but I can. I do not require religion to be ethical. I do not require any god to be good.

(May 6, 2011 at 6:48 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: Ah, I see it now.
So what's wrong with finding your own way? I've never believed in god, and yet I've done no wrong. I've lead myself well. What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it at all, in fact it's a good thing. I suspect that you're having done no wrong comes from a great internal moral character...keyword internal.

Quote:They don't contradict because god is not included. Morality comes from us. We define it. We collectively agree on ethical standards. Live and let live. Basic respect and care for your fellow man is a common thing. Socially acceptable. Morality does not come from religion.

So if it was socially acceptable to murder babies, that'd be okay? Or would you strongly disagree with that idea based on the obviousness of its being morally wrong.?

(May 6, 2011 at 6:56 pm)Watson Wrote: So if it was socially acceptable to murder babies, that'd be okay? Or would you strongly disagree with that idea based on the obviousness of its being morally wrong.?

No it would not be ok. Anything negative done on another is considered wrong. Morality is very much subjective, but we do tend to have a common ethical standard. No killing, raping, stealing, ect ect. Don't need a god to tell us not to do such things. We can think and judge for ourselves. It's not that hard.

(May 6, 2011 at 6:56 pm)Watson Wrote:

(May 6, 2011 at 6:48 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: Ah, I see it now.
So what's wrong with finding your own way? I've never believed in god, and yet I've done no wrong. I've lead myself well. What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it at all, in fact it's a good thing. I suspect that you're having done no wrong comes from a great internal moral character...keyword internal.

Quote:They don't contradict because god is not included. Morality comes from us. We define it. We collectively agree on ethical standards. Live and let live. Basic respect and care for your fellow man is a common thing. Socially acceptable. Morality does not come from religion.

So if it was socially acceptable to murder babies, that'd be okay? Or would you strongly disagree with that idea based on the obviousness of its being morally wrong.?

There have been cultures where it was socially acceptable to murder babies. Their gods told them to do stupid shit so they did it.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/04/18...e_arc.html

Quote:April 18, 2007 — Archaeologists have discovered the remains of two dozen children who were apparent sacrificial victims to a rain god by Mexican Indians nearly 1,000 years ago, researchers said Tuesday.

Quote:First, what I understand is not irrelevant,

Well actually it is,when you use the position "I don't understand' as the basis for an argument,which is what you did. That form of argument is a basic logical fallacy, "argument from incredulity",a form of argument from ignorance.

Quote:Argument from incredulity / Lack of imagination

Arguments from incredulity take the form:

P is too incredible (or I cannot imagine how P could possibly be true); therefore P must be false.
It is obvious that P (or I cannot imagine how P could possibly be false) therefore P must be true.

These arguments are similar to arguments from ignorance in that they too ignore and do not properly eliminate the possibility that something can be both incredible and still be true, or appear to be obvious and yet still be false.

Bored now

(May 6, 2011 at 4:37 am)Rwandrall Wrote:

(May 6, 2011 at 3:46 am)Godschild Wrote: You are pretty much correct in what you said, here's the reason most christians do not try to help people to convert to christianity, we are always accused of being pushy or telling others they need to believe what we do and others say that we need to keep our religion to ourselves. Some times remarks like those can come back to bite. So if you want to see more christians wittnessing then lighten up.

My brother want even have a conversation about God, when God is mentioned when he's around, he's off and gone. I would cherish the chance to tell him about Christ if he would just listen. Maybe your brother feels the same way and said what he did to get you thinking and just maybe he did!

The problem is that secularism and the acceptance of other faiths cannot comply with Christianity, only because of this notion of Hell...this is really too bad. Because of that idea that one's faith is the only true one, there can simply never be peace between religions. It is logically impossible. I see no way out as long as those religions hold those beliefs.

I think Evangelical Christians ARE being pushy, but i can't just say "it's okay because that's what their religion tells them". When someone does something objectionable (in my subjective view) in the name of religion i can disagree with them. But on the other hand, only that way do they seem sincere in their will to help others escape Hell. It's a paradox, really, but a paradox that is self-inflicted.

If a terrorist (to use an extreme example, i'll never equate distributing bibles to killing innocents) says that he has to do the killing because that is what the religion says and only that way can they truly be sincere in their beliefs...i can't just say "fair enough". On the contrary, i would say that the religion itself has a problem if it requires engaging in objectionable behavior.
_______________________________________________________

@Cinjin, that's a bit unfair, since two of those people are already dead

Yes I agree that some religions have ideas that are dangerous and frankly should not be tolerated. Even within christianity there are those who have dangerous ideas and I for one do not tolerate them.
Even if hell was not a part of christianity there still would be discord between religions and christianity, there is discord between different factions of Islam and there will always be discord between the different religions. Have you ever given any thought to christianity being the most plausible of the religions because of hell.

(May 7, 2011 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote: Have you ever given any thought to christianity being the most plausible of the religions because of hell.

christianity?? the most plausible?!?!? BeCAUSE of HELL?!?!


<--- you best lay off that glass dick bro

(May 6, 2011 at 4:05 am)Cinjin Cain Wrote:

(May 6, 2011 at 3:46 am)Godschild Wrote: Your faith must have be shallow and your understanding of scripture limited because when Jesus was talking about answered prayer He was saying that your prayer would have to be within the will of God to be answered. Praying for gain outside of spiritual matters very seldom results in a positive answer, I know you did not say what you were praying for but most people want to know why they did not receive the stuff they prayed for. Prayer is meant for a relationship with God, one that is spiritual not material or physical. Prayer is a way given to us to grow closer to God.

Firstly, I wasn't addressing you. Secondly, you can't pretend to know what I was praying for when I was 9 years old. Thirdly, your bible does NOT preface or put a disclaimer on what you're allowed to ask for. It makes a statement of "fact". Fourthly, a one sided conversation does not make anyone closer to anything - let alone the most powerful force in the universe. Fifthly, do you think it was selfish of me to ask god for school clothes and shoes?!?!

If I was locked in a room with Hussein, Bin Laden and You and I had a pistol with only two bullets ... I'd shoot you TWICE!!

You are right I do not know what you were praying for and I said so, you also gave no details to your age or for that matter any real details at all so you left one to assume. No I do not think it wrong for a 9 year old to ask God for clothes and shoes for school, I also do not think that a 9 year old should be left wondering why God did not answer that prayer, your parents should have had a talk with you about unanswered pray.

Hell is acceptable for those that believe God has no obligations towards human beings, neither moral, nor otherwise.

That the root of a belief system is responsibility going only one way does not speak well of it.

I was never okay with the doctrine of hell when I was a Christian. Retrospectively speaking I didn't mind what God did to me, I wanted to do his will, if I were a damned creation so be it, but the rest of the human race? No. Even the biggest arsehole alive doesn't deserve an *eternity* of torture. Any sane intelligent mind with an ounce of empathy and compassion could appreciate that. The Biblical God demonstrates he lacks all these aforementioned qualities, I'd call him a monster, but that would denigrate the other fictional monsters such as Godzilla.

(May 5, 2011 at 7:57 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Resistance is futile, but still a choice. That's why God is so great.

You make God sound more like a frighteningly-jealous lover everyday fr0d0. Very disturbing, keep up the good work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7fQSBC4Ids