(August 9, 2016 at 11:41 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(August 9, 2016 at 8:38 am)Drich Wrote: I guess you are trying to pair Jesus "knocking" with verse 26???

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

Again, the Jews (as well as proper apologists) subdivide the books of the OT into three main subjects.

The Hebrew Bible is organized into three main sections: the Torah, or “Teaching,” also called the Pentateuch or the “Five Books of Moses”; the Neviʾim, or Prophets; and the Ketuvim, or Writings. It is often referred to as the Tanakh, a word combining the first letter from the names of each of the three main divisions.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hebrew-Bible

Judges is considered to be a book of 'writings' or more specifically a historical accounting of the time between moses and Christ.

So when 26 and 27 says the concubine fell/died at the door of her Master, it literally means a woman died on the door step of her owner after being raped to death by all those other men.
There was a literal rape that lasted all night, a literal concubine, a literal door and a literal death with a literal division of her body sent to 12 different places.

Again no prophecy found in a book of writings. Just the facts sir just the facts...

Now was Jesus trying to borrow from this story to illustrate a larger point? perhaps, the arguement could indeed be made, but again that does not make the story prophetic as that word is defined by the Jews of the time of judges nor in Christ's time.

The knocking refers to verse 22:

Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

I don't know how you get the knocking out of verses 26-27.

Also there are prophecies in all books of the Bible, including the Torah.  God promised Abraham that his semen would fill the sky, if that's not poetic prophecy then I don't know what is.

Again, this is a book of 'Writtings'/History NOT PROPHECY As such knocking on a door means to physically knock on a  literal Door in a book of writtings.

did you ignore everything I wrote in favor of creating confusion as to be able to hang on to your argument?

Or do you not understand this is not considered prophecy because it did not come from a prophet and not found in a book a prophet wrote?

(August 9, 2016 at 7:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 9, 2016 at 8:48 am)Drich Wrote: -Or maybe just maybe Drich is reading with 20+ years of study and experience of framing out the context of scripture from a historical and cultural context. Meaning Maybe 'he' understands and is trying to communicate that just because you can read english does not give you mastery over this series of document and what one can glean from a once over scan or the more popular youtube anti apologists' take, is most likely wrong because none of the things I bring up have been used to filter out the foolishness you all use to pad your arguments with.

Oh, please.  You resort to logical fallacies and dishonest debate tactics to make your points, and the fact that you ACTUALLY believe no one has ever proven you wrong on a point around here only speaks further to your delusions of grandeur.  And, there is no such thing as "cultural context" when God himself commanded the culture into being.  But, you know where to find that thread.  [emoji6]

Are you saying because God does not exist the Jewish people does not exist? Or are you say they are without culture? or are you saying their is no history to said culture???? Because if the Jewish people exist.. and if they have a culture, then despite the importance you place on verifying it's origins, the truth of the matter means, that the Jews have a 'cultural context' from which interpreting their writings must be filtered through for proper and accurate exegesis.

If you 'feel' differently, then Please, explain.. "Prove me wrong/Win this argument."

(August 10, 2016 at 8:59 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 9, 2016 at 11:41 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote: The knocking refers to verse 22:

Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

I don't know how you get the knocking out of verses 26-27.

Also there are prophecies in all books of the Bible, including the Torah.  God promised Abraham that his semen would fill the sky, if that's not poetic prophecy then I don't know what is.

Again, this is a book of 'Writtings'/History NOT PROPHECY As such knocking on a door means to physically knock on a  literal Door in a book of writtings.

did you ignore everything I wrote in favor of creating confusion as to be able to hang on to your argument?

Or do you not understand this is not considered prophecy because it did not come from a prophet and not found in a book a prophet wrote?

If it is not prophetic then explain why Jesus fulfills it by quoting it.

Yes, Drichy. She's saying precisely that the Jewish people do not exist. Well done. Give yourself a shiny.

Quote: Are you saying because God does not exist the Jewish people does not exist?

I think she's saying that because god does not exist the jews are just as fucking stupid as every other bunch of primitive assholes in the world.   That should be a feeling you know well, dripshit.

(August 10, 2016 at 9:05 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 9, 2016 at 7:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Oh, please.  You resort to logical fallacies and dishonest debate tactics to make your points, and the fact that you ACTUALLY believe no one has ever proven you wrong on a point around here only speaks further to your delusions of grandeur.  And, there is no such thing as "cultural context" when God himself commanded the culture into being.  But, you know where to find that thread.  [emoji6]

Are you saying because God does not exist the Jewish people does not exist? Or are you say they are without culture? or are you saying their is no history to said culture???? Because if the Jewish people exist.. and if they have a culture, then despite the importance you place on verifying it's origins, the truth of the matter means, that the Jews have a 'cultural context' from which interpreting their writings must be filtered through for proper and accurate exegesis.

If you 'feel' differently, then Please, explain.. "Prove me wrong/Win this argument."

I actually didn't mean ANY of those things. Obviously I wasn't clear. I'm saying that God is 100% responsible for cultivating Jewish culture, therefore placing god's moral laws into "cultural context" in order to justify them literally makes no sense. That's all I'm saying here because I don't want to derail NV's thread. You know where to find my cultural context thread. Huggy could really use the help, actually. [emoji41]

(August 10, 2016 at 9:35 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(August 10, 2016 at 8:59 am)Drich Wrote: Again, this is a book of 'Writtings'/History NOT PROPHECY As such knocking on a door means to physically knock on a  literal Door in a book of writtings.

did you ignore everything I wrote in favor of creating confusion as to be able to hang on to your argument?

Or do you not understand this is not considered prophecy because it did not come from a prophet and not found in a book a prophet wrote?

If it is not prophetic then explain why Jesus fulfills it by quoting it.

Where does Jesus do this?

(August 10, 2016 at 5:07 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 10, 2016 at 9:05 am)Drich Wrote:

Are you saying because God does not exist the Jewish people does not exist? Or are you say they are without culture? or are you saying their is no history to said culture???? Because if the Jewish people exist.. and if they have a culture, then despite the importance you place on verifying it's origins, the truth of the matter means, that the Jews have a 'cultural context' from which interpreting their writings must be filtered through for proper and accurate exegesis.

If you 'feel' differently, then Please, explain.. "Prove me wrong/Win this argument."

I actually didn't mean ANY of those things.  Obviously I wasn't clear.  I'm saying that God is 100% responsible for cultivating Jewish culture, therefore placing god's moral laws into "cultural context" in order to justify them literally makes no sense.  That's all I'm saying here because I don't want to derail NV's thread.  You know where to find my cultural context thread.  Huggy could really use the help, actually.  [emoji41]

I think huggy is doing quite well, and does need me parroting back what he has already said.

So to you I ask again which logical fallacy do you see here?

Because despite what how you judge the legitimacy of the Jewish claim that God authored their culture/shaped it. Never the less the by product of their writing and historical actions are filter through this 'cultural context.' To extrapolate a story or a event from this historical context and assign new purpose or new meaning is the fallacy of quoting out of context.

That would be like me dismissing the written history of the Egyptians and how their society was built around their gods because their gods were not real... When in fact, if I am to accurately represent a portion of Egyptian history or literary work I have to translate/explain it meaning through the frame work of their society. (Explain their moral values and why they did what they did.) Rather than foolishly take a story from their literary works and force wrongful judgement through this society's morality. One can do this, but know that is perfect demonstration of self righteousness, and a perfect demonstration of one's inability to be subjective or critical beyond their own sense of self righteousness.

Drich, don't laugh at LFC: She smarter and nicer than you are

(August 11, 2016 at 9:40 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 10, 2016 at 9:35 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote: If it is not prophetic then explain why Jesus fulfills it by quoting it.

Where does Jesus do this?

Revelation 3:20. I thought every Christian knows that one.