(September 19, 2016 at 10:42 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(September 19, 2016 at 10:00 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I never mention my molestation to anyone IRL, really. I've told three or four people over the last twenty-five years, and I hated doing it. Online, only here, and  one other (now defunct) forum, have I felt comfortable enough to talk about it. But even then -- and even now -- it feels like attention-whoring and makes me deeply uncomfortable. So I'm going to shut the fuck up.

Yeah, this exactly.  Maybe because sexual assault is still taboo in our society?  (Is it?)  I'm not sure, but it definitely always feels as if I'm appealing to emotion, or fishing for pity.  It's like...nails on a chalk board just typing it out; another example of the subtle, but lasting psychological damage this kind of trauma has on people.  So sorry to hear that you are an honorary club member, Thump.  [emoji45]  Don't ever feel that you should 'shut the fuck up' about it, or anything EVER.  Sometimes these experiences are worth the discomfort of bringing up because they're relevant to the discussion, and sometimes it just feels good to get it off your chest.  

Well, rightly or wrongly, I'm content to unload my cargo behind the warehouse rather than in front, mostly, for precisely the reasons you expanded upon. I've made my peace with it in my own heart, anyway, so I don't want to make it my headline, I don't want it to define me, because it doesn't.

(September 19, 2016 at 11:19 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Did I just make it awkward?  ?

Nope

(September 19, 2016 at 5:57 am)Bella Morte Wrote:

(September 19, 2016 at 5:23 am)Arkilogue Wrote: [..]

Germany and Sweden have pretty much given up on that. Oh wait strike that, they expect all women to change behavior with government officials telling women to wear less revealing clothes even suggesting they wear a burqa, put on a bracelet that says "don't touch me" (I guess this is educating the rapist?) and wear sneakers to be able to run away from would-be rapists.

Germany and Sweden are beyond ruined and the kids are brainwashed in schools to accept multiculturalism and the destruction of their culture. I fear that it is too late for the whole of Europe now.

Sorry for sidetracking this, but, it's funny how the average grade in the local schools around my area have risen since immigrants have come here. The local schools in my area have pretty much always been quite shit in terms of students unless you go 30 minutes away into the cities, but the immigrants seem to have done a good job in the majority of my local schools, we don't seem to have a problem here. 

In my school, which has very very many immigrants, it has shown to make it a bit worse, but the other schools (also gotten more immigrants) have gotten better. There are stupid, idiotic immigrants as there are swedes in my school and there are brilliant immigrants and swedes in my school too. I was surprised to see some of the immigrants in my class were even better at mathematics than the ones born here and they were harder working. I don't know where the fuck you got your sources from, and in way it's rather offensive that the innocent immigrants you refer to as rapefugees are in the same spot that my family once were :/ I don't recall my brothers and sisters raping anyone. To sum it up and repeat, there are bad immigrants as there are bad swedish people, bad german people etc, it's a matter of indivduals, society and education, not directly where you come from.

At least, I, am not going to have thousands of immigrants suffer because a minority did some bad stuff.

There is a difference between being at fault and being responsible (in your own actions). There is also a difference between giving advice for foresight, and giving advice for hindsight.

A rape victim is never at fault for being raped, because the act of being raped isn't their own. A potential rape victim (and let's face it, that includes everyone) can do some responsible things to try and avoid becoming a rape victim. Sometimes those responsible things will work, sometimes they won't, because there is no way to avoid being raped with a 100% certainty. Staying in groups of friends, drinking responsibly, pre-booking taxis, etc. are all examples of responsible things that can minimize the chances of being raped.

This advice is good to use as foresight. That is, if someone is going out to a party, it's reasonable to tell them "you should do x, y, z and stay safe". However, this advice is not any good (or any use) in hindsight. If said person gets raped at the party, it's not ever reasonable, or indeed ever polite, to tell them "well you should have done x, y, z and you wouldn't have been raped". The simple reason being, that neither x, y, or z are guarantees that someone will not be raped.

(September 20, 2016 at 11:45 am)Tiberius Wrote: There is a difference between being at fault and being responsible (in your own actions). There is also a difference between giving advice for foresight, and giving advice for hindsight.

A rape victim is never at fault for being raped, because the act of being raped isn't their own. A potential rape victim (and let's face it, that includes everyone) can do some responsible things to try and avoid becoming a rape victim. Sometimes those responsible things will work, sometimes they won't, because there is no way to avoid being raped with a 100% certainty. Staying in groups of friends, drinking responsibly, pre-booking taxis, etc. are all examples of responsible things that can minimize the chances of being raped.

This advice is good to use as foresight. That is, if someone is going out to a party, it's reasonable to tell them "you should do x, y, z and stay safe". However, this advice is not any good (or any use) in hindsight. If said person gets raped at the party, it's not ever reasonable, or indeed ever polite, to tell them "well you should have done x, y, z and you wouldn't have been raped". The simple reason being, that neither x, y, or z are guarantees that someone will not be raped.

^^^ This. This was exactly what I was trying to communicate, but of course, you did a much clearer and more succinct job of communicating it, Tibs. [emoji6] Thank you.

(September 20, 2016 at 1:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 11:45 am)Tiberius Wrote: There is a difference between being at fault and being responsible (in your own actions). There is also a difference between giving advice for foresight, and giving advice for hindsight.

A rape victim is never at fault for being raped, because the act of being raped isn't their own. A potential rape victim (and let's face it, that includes everyone) can do some responsible things to try and avoid becoming a rape victim. Sometimes those responsible things will work, sometimes they won't, because there is no way to avoid being raped with a 100% certainty. Staying in groups of friends, drinking responsibly, pre-booking taxis, etc. are all examples of responsible things that can minimize the chances of being raped.

This advice is good to use as foresight. That is, if someone is going out to a party, it's reasonable to tell them "you should do x, y, z and stay safe". However, this advice is not any good (or any use) in hindsight. If said person gets raped at the party, it's not ever reasonable, or indeed ever polite, to tell them "well you should have done x, y, z and you wouldn't have been raped". The simple reason being, that neither x, y, or z are guarantees that someone will not be raped.

^^^ This.  This was exactly what I was trying to communicate, but of course, you did a much clearer and succinct job of communicating it, Tibs.  [emoji6]   Thank you.

Except that I have the feeling that this was what Ark, the OP and even that ScienceAF kid were trying to say as well. They just didn't do it as eloquently as Tibs has.

Correct me if I'm wrong, those who I've attributed intentions to above.

(September 20, 2016 at 1:22 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 1:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: ^^^ This.  This was exactly what I was trying to communicate, but of course, you did a much clearer and succinct job of communicating it, Tibs.  [emoji6]   Thank you.

Except that I have the feeling that this was what Ark, the OP and even that ScienceAF kid were trying to say as well. They just didn't do it as eloquently as Tibs has.

Correct me if I'm wrong, those who I've attributed intentions to above.

If that is the case, then I owe them both an apology.

(September 20, 2016 at 1:24 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 1:22 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Except that I have the feeling that this was what Ark, the OP and even that ScienceAF kid were trying to say as well. They just didn't do it as eloquently as Tibs has.

Correct me if I'm wrong, those who I've attributed intentions to above.

If that is the case, then I owe them both an apology.

That's silly. You don't owe anyone an apology. If someone means something they should state it in an at least somewhat comprehensible way. The op, to me, was fine. Ark said things like "she may as well blame the sun for burning her skin". There's no amount of twisting that can make a statement like that acceptable in reference to a rape victim.

(September 20, 2016 at 2:08 pm)Losty Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 1:24 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: If that is the case, then I owe them both an apology.

That's silly. You don't owe anyone an apology. If someone means something they should state it in an at least somewhat comprehensible way. The op, to me, was fine. Ark said things like "she may as well blame the sun for burning her skin". There's no amount of twisting that can make a statement like that acceptable in reference to a rape victim.

Yeesh; I must have missed picking that colorful analogy out of Ark's typical textwall ramble-style posting, lol.



Or wait...is that a metaphor? Which one uses "like or as"?? EP, I NEED YOU!

(September 20, 2016 at 1:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: ^^^ This.  This was exactly what I was trying to communicate, but of course, you did a much clearer and succinct job of communicating it, Tibs.  [emoji6]   Thank you.

(September 20, 2016 at 1:22 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: They just didn't do it as eloquently as Tibs has.

Debating on the Internet for years will do that for you. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that if you spend the time crafting an argument that covers every aspect of your point in detail whilst also being succinct and easy to understand, you'll find less people will misinterpret your words and will actually be able to focus on their objections.