Quote:Alvarado, who four times was on the cusp of being fired for insubordination, disobeyed a direct order on November 12. He falsified key details of the shooting in his official report. A 14-year-old boy was gunned down execution-style for the venial offense of engaging in an adolescent scuffle, and for compelling an overweight middle-aged badge-polisher to run a few hundred yards. According to the San Antonio Police Department, this is all perfectly acceptable: The department ruled that the murder of Derek Lopez was a “justified” shooting.

I have no doubts of the necessity of a police force. But I cannot stand the idea that so many can get away with killing innocents. So many of the higher ups seem to forget the cops have to obey the laws too. They especially have to adhere to the Bill of Rights. They can't use deadly force on an unarmed kid. Am I wrong to be so outraged? I understand that is Libertarian biased media. But regardless of whether everything in it is true or not, the fact is that a child was gunned down by an officer to which he posed absolutely no threat to. And even worse, the department has ruled this murder justified.

Frankly, that's always the inherent problem with cops. When they say "us versus them" they mean "cops versus anyone else." We have given the cops way too much power in this country. I often think it attracts the wrong element to the job.

(May 27, 2011 at 12:43 am)Minimalist Wrote: Frankly, that's always the inherent problem with cops. When they say "us versus them" they mean "cops versus anyone else." We have given the cops way too much power in this country. I often think it attracts the wrong element to the job.

I completely agree. "We" have been led to believe that the only way we can be secure is if the police, military or homeland security have unlimited power and authority to act as they wish. And, like you said, that kind of power "attracts the wrong element to the job." The biggest problem is that people are too easily persuaded. Politicians talk about security and we are willing to give all of our rights just to feel* safe.

*Of course most actions by those branches I mentioned do not make us safer. They, usually, make us less safe.

I fucking cringe every time some assholes talks about how "the troops" are fighting for us. I don't know what they are fighting for....I suspect like soldiers throughout time they fight for each other. Politicians may have sent them there for some reason....and it had little to do with protecting "us" and they just do what they are told.

Cops, OTOH, are a different story. In the 60's there was a saying which went "if you don't like cops next time you need help call a hippie." Well, a hippie may or may not help but he sure as shit would not run your ID through a computer first before deciding what to do.

I love it when you reference hippies Min. I agree that the power does probably attract the wrong element. I'm not sure what can be practically done about it at this stage though.

Fuck me I don't even know what to say about this. I hope the ACLU gets a hold of this case & goes after this guy for murder under the color of authority.

(May 27, 2011 at 12:43 am)Minimalist Wrote: Frankly, that's always the inherent problem with cops. When they say "us versus them" they mean "cops versus anyone else." We have given the cops way too much power in this country. I often think it attracts the wrong element to the job.

This is explained well in social psychology. Give a jobless and ordinarily mild-mannered man off the street a symbol of authority, a uniform to make him stand out and easily recognisable allegiance to a group, make laws that enable him to enforce their authority onto the public, give him a gun to defend himself, a badge to command respect, sit back, and watch just how fast he will turn into a complete arsehole and abuse his civic duty.

This mentality is not limited to law-enforcement, people in general always want the privileges that come with power and status, never the vices of responsibility and being held accountable for one's own actions or inactions.

I worked in law enforcement for around 14 years or so, but not as an officer. It seems that most departments do have psychological screening as part of the hiring process (or at least should). And I'd say that most cops I worked with were good, upstanding people.

That being said, I really do cringe whenever I read a story like this about a cop shooting an unarmed teenager or otherwise abusing power. Those people need to be weeded out of the police force. I've seen cops get fired for less, so I don't know how they could say that this shooting is justified, unless we're not hearing the whole story. To be fair, the story written on that blog is biased against the cop, so I'd like to see both sides of the story before making up my mind. Regardless, deadly force is only authorized when facing an armed assailant, so I can't grasp how this could be construed as justifiable.

Glad I live in a country where the pigs, sorry, police are not armed with guns on a day-to-day basis.

(May 27, 2011 at 7:59 am)Welsh cake Wrote:

(May 27, 2011 at 12:43 am)Minimalist Wrote: Frankly, that's always the inherent problem with cops. When they say "us versus them" they mean "cops versus anyone else." We have given the cops way too much power in this country. I often think it attracts the wrong element to the job.

This is explained well in social psychology. Give a jobless and ordinarily mild-mannered man off the street a symbol of authority, a uniform to make him stand out and easily recognisable allegiance to a group, make laws that enable him to enforce their authority onto the public, give him a gun to defend himself, a badge to command respect, sit back, and watch just how fast he will turn into a complete arsehole and abuse his civic duty.

I once saw the results of a study that a professor did on the effects of authority. It was in a mock prison setting. Some students volunteered to be prisoners and others volunteered to be guards. The students knew they were playing a role, but they got so into it that the professor saw them go from normal students to people with detainment issues and authority issues. The guards started making them do crazy shit, yelling at them in their cells, etc. All of this, while knowing that they were only part of a study. That is how strong the inclination to abuse authority is in human beings. It is rarer to be compassionate in a position of authority than it is to be a tyrant. I wish I could remember the name of the professor and the study. I'm sorry, guys, but I assure you, it was real.