(October 9, 2016 at 1:34 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: Stalin. His name from russian almost translates as Steel. And he indeed was a badass.

"Man of Steel". "Dzugashvili" by birth.

Lenin's birth name was "Ulyanov".

(October 10, 2016 at 9:21 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: "Man of Steel". "Dzugashvili" by birth.

And Georgian, not Russian. Never lost his accent, according to his inner circle.

(October 10, 2016 at 9:47 am)abaris Wrote:

(October 10, 2016 at 9:21 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: "Man of Steel". "Dzugashvili" by birth.

And Georgian, not Russian. Never lost his accent, according to his inner circle.

And "Clapping for Stalin" was not an STD.  

(October 10, 2016 at 8:18 am)abaris Wrote:

(October 10, 2016 at 5:18 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I disagree with this. I find folks admirable who work through their flaws. Churchill, mentioned above, and Abraham Lincoln, are two of my favorites.

Point is, as I said, I'm very careful with extremes. Admiration as well as hatred.

There are certainly certain things I admire in certain persons. But the whole person? No, according to my definition of admiration, I don't have that feeling for any historical person. Not even artists, who's work I certainly admire. I love Wagner, just to give one example, but there's the person behind the work. And he certainly wasn't admirable. I admire Mozart's work, and, going by all accounts, I like him as a person, but he certainly wasn't admirable in everything he did.

We have different attitudes about it, I was just giving voice to my own.

(October 10, 2016 at 1:22 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(October 10, 2016 at 8:18 am)abaris Wrote: Point is, as I said, I'm very careful with extremes. Admiration as well as hatred.

There are certainly certain things I admire in certain persons. But the whole person? No, according to my definition of admiration, I don't have that feeling for any historical person. Not even artists, who's work I certainly admire. I love Wagner, just to give one example, but there's the person behind the work. And he certainly wasn't admirable. I admire Mozart's work, and, going by all accounts, I like him as a person, but he certainly wasn't admirable in everything he did.

We have different attitudes about it, I was just giving voice to my own.

I think that's fair.  Myself, I don't really expect to find a lot of thoroughly admirable people.  I think we all have dark sides and inner conflicts.  My favorite historical figure would go to the person I'd anticipate having the more enjoyable conversation with, warts and all.

"Admirable" is like "heroic".  I'm not waiting to be saved by a hero.

(October 10, 2016 at 1:30 pm)Whateverist Wrote: "Admirable" is like "heroic".  I'm not waiting to be saved by a hero.

I kind of have the same problem with the word. Maybe pure semantics, but I'm also very careful in using the word hero. In my case it's reserved for people risking life and limb so save others.

(October 10, 2016 at 1:52 pm)abaris Wrote:

(October 10, 2016 at 1:30 pm)Whateverist Wrote: "Admirable" is like "heroic".  I'm not waiting to be saved by a hero.

I kind of have the same problem with the word. Maybe pure semantics, but I'm also very careful in using the word hero. In my case it's reserved for people risking life and limb so save others.

Yes, the Khan's son was a war hero for example.  No problem with that.

(October 10, 2016 at 6:18 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Yes, the Khan's son was a war hero for example.  No problem with that.

For participants in any war I have another term: Poor sods.

(October 10, 2016 at 1:52 pm)abaris Wrote:

(October 10, 2016 at 1:30 pm)Whateverist Wrote: "Admirable" is like "heroic".  I'm not waiting to be saved by a hero.

I kind of have the same problem with the word. Maybe pure semantics, but I'm also very careful in using the word hero. In my case it's reserved for people risking life and limb so save others.

I used to call those two "heroes".

Now I simply think of them as "examples". Being in better touch with my own deep flaws, I have more respect for how they rose above their own.

Thatcher.