(November 13, 2016 at 12:19 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: When you consider that it was the military who created the internet to begin with, that's no idle warning.

There were several investigative articles in the early 80ies on how data is exchanged between offices and even makes it to possible employers. He may have made use of that generally available information. But these articles weren't created out of thin air either.

I'm not fretting over the possibility that someone gets hold of my details. But I'm also not living under the delusion that I'm flying under the radar either. If someone wants to know, they will know. And there might come a time when I'm an undsirable, having a harder time landing a job or collecting benefits.

(November 13, 2016 at 12:02 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Now the German Christians know better, but here the Americans  still have to learn what the Germans learned long ago. Hopefully America will learn and be wiser and less credulous for it.

Here you have to search for radical christians with a magnifying glass. And they weren't the reasons why I left church. It was my disbelief making me leave, certainly not what they stood for. That's why I always argue for drawing distinct lines between believers and radicals. I don't have even a second's hesitation to accept them as allies, given how many good people there are fighting against the rightwing plague and the anti humanistic stance so many people are assuming right now.

I doubt we can really do much against Trump, since the House and senate are controlled by republicans. It's their show now. What we should focus on is the DNC. Basically get a new one, so we can get a candidate that the base will actually support. That democrats WANT to vote for, instead of staying home. Bernie got them out and voting. We need Bernie, or someone close to him, to motivate the base. Obviously going out to vote against a poor republican candidate isn't enough. We need someone they want t vote for, because saying "at least s/he isn't as bad as the other one" obviously doesn't work.

(November 13, 2016 at 1:13 pm)Chad32 Wrote: What we should focus on is the DNC.

With all due respect, and if you are willing to accept an outside perspective - you should focus on getting shot of that two party system of yours. I know that's taking a lot of work, effort and banging your heads against walls. But it's abundandtly clear that these parties aren't willing to move.

(November 13, 2016 at 12:55 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 13, 2016 at 12:02 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Now the German Christians know better, but here the Americans  still have to learn what the Germans learned long ago. Hopefully America will learn and be wiser and less credulous for it.

Here you have to search for radical christians with a magnifying glass. And they weren't the reasons why I left church. It was my disbelief making me leave, certainly not what they stood for. That's why I always argue for drawing distinct lines between believers and radicals. I don't have even a second's hesitation to accept them as allies, given how many good people there are fighting against the rightwing plague and the anti humanistic stance so many people are assuming right now.

I'm not sure of what you mean by radical Christian and I don't want to assume to know.

(November 13, 2016 at 1:41 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: I'm not sure of what you mean by radical Christian and I don't want to assume to know.

Christians that don't simply believe but feel it is their duty to challenge secular values on any kind of political or social level. Our churches don't.

(November 13, 2016 at 1:16 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 13, 2016 at 1:13 pm)Chad32 Wrote: What we should focus on is the DNC.

With all due respect, and if you are willing to accept an outside perspective - you should focus on getting shot of that two party system of yours. I know that's taking a lot of work, effort and banging your heads against walls. But it's abundandtly clear that these parties aren't willing to move.

That's not going to happen. It's a non-starter. 

Getting rid of Trump and his ilk will have to happen within our two party system. It's also worth noting that if Greens would have all cast their votes for Hillary, and half of Gary Johnson's voters would have done the same, we wouldn't be looking at President Trump right now. If anything, at least for the next decade, third parties need to be completely eschewed. 

If Hillary would have won, and if the Senate would have flipped Democratic (and we easily had the numbers for it), the Republican party may have very well disintegrated from such a blow. But as it stands, they've been re-solidified because Democrats didn't show up and vote. Third party voters only exacerbated the situation.

(November 13, 2016 at 8:10 am)abaris Wrote: I also find myself in the peculiar situation that our churches are our natural allies. They also fight resentment, bigotry and most of all being intrumentalised by the right. Churches in Western Europe are nothing like Americans may be used to. Both Catholics as well as protestants stand up against exclusion, help refugees and the needy. The protestants are even socially liberal for their most part and also the Catholics have strong factions fighting for social change. Bot priests and laymen.

You don't have much experience of the rcc in Ireland do you? At the moment the church is the standard bearer for the far right in this country. Lucky for us more catholics die each winter than are confirmed each spring.

(November 13, 2016 at 2:06 pm)Tazzycorn Wrote: You don't have much experience of the rcc in Ireland do you? At the moment the church is the standard bearer for the far right in this country. Lucky for us more catholics die each winter than are confirmed each spring.

I'm well aware of the situation in Ireland. That's why I talked about Western Europe and not the East or the North.

(November 13, 2016 at 2:13 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 13, 2016 at 2:06 pm)Tazzycorn Wrote: You don't have much experience of the rcc in Ireland do you? At the moment the church is the standard bearer for the far right in this country. Lucky for us more catholics die each winter than are confirmed each spring.

I'm well aware of the situation in Ireland. That's why I talked about Western Europe and not the East or the North.

Ireland is western europe. Far more western than the Mitteleuropa of Austria anyways.