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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 2:43 am
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 2:48 am by robvalue.)
It is true that atheism is a pre-emptive position. I'm probably going to say I lack belief in what someone eventually describes as being "God". But they may say something like "The universe is God", in which case I obviously believe in it. So whether I believe, disbelieve, believe to the contrary or just push the person into the nearest trash will depend entirely on their attempts to define "God". Apatheist covers it rather better really. I don't give a shit about anyone's "God", real or imagined.
This is my position, ignosticism. I have a problem with the question. I feel I always require clarification. So it's fair to say I'm not technically an atheist because I don't yet understand what I'm being asked, in the general case. But this is too much detail for most people 
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 8:43 am
My belief in God is absent but it lacks nothing 
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 10:05 am
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 10:06 am by robvalue.)
Going further, if clarification is required before an answer, agnosticism doesn't even make sense; except insofar as to acknowledge the limits of all our knowledge.
For example, if "god" is "the universe" according to some dude, then I'm a gnostic theist. As far as I know anything, I know the universe exists.
This is covered by ignosticism; I reserve judgement entirely until I've heard the particular drivel the next theist has to offer.
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 11:22 am
If "god" is "the universe" to some dude, he's just an equivocating numbskull, and you're still an atheist, lol.
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 2:12 pm
Sure he is, but he still makes more sense than most theists. I don't know how many of them have actually given me a coherent definition. I can't think of any right now, although there has probably been a couple.
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 2:16 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 2:43 am)robvalue Wrote: It is true that atheism is a pre-emptive position. I'm probably going to say I lack belief in what someone eventually describes as being "God". But they may say something like "The universe is God", in which case I obviously believe in it. So whether I believe, disbelieve, believe to the contrary or just push the person into the nearest trash will depend entirely on their attempts to define "God". Apatheist covers it rather better really. I don't give a shit about anyone's "God", real or imagined.
This is my position, ignosticism. I have a problem with the question. I feel I always require clarification. So it's fair to say I'm not technically an atheist because I don't yet understand what I'm being asked, in the general case. But this is too much detail for most people
And yet as you yourself are fond of pointing out, in the meantime, awaiting a clarification, you'd have to admit you lack belief in gods.
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 2:33 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 2:34 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 14, 2016 at 2:12 pm)robvalue Wrote: Sure he is, but he still makes more sense than most theists. I don't know how many of them have actually given me a coherent definition. I can't think of any right now, although there has probably been a couple.
I think God as a deity that was the creator of the universe is a coherent definition. And I think that's the standard definition. This is why I am not ignostic/theological non-cognitivist, I think the standard definition of God works fine... I think it's when the claimant(s) doesn't distinguish between reality and existence and the universe, and when they claim that God is outside of nature, space and time as well as having created the universe.... it's when they start saying that stuff that it becomes incoherent. Until they give those details it's just a claim about something extremely complex being at the beginning.... which is extremely improbable. And the fine-tuning argument bullshit is dealt with easily by the anthropic principle. God Himself ™ would have to be even more fine-tuned, etc, etc.
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 2:37 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 2:16 pm)Whateverist Wrote: And yet as you yourself are fond of pointing out, in the meantime, awaiting a clarification, you'd have to admit you lack belief in gods.
"Lacking belief" is such a pet peeve of mine:
Lack
noun
the state of being without or not having enough of something.
Lack
verb
be without or deficient in.
Nothing is deficient or lacking... it's an absence not a lack
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 2:39 pm
I would never say I lacked belief in gods because that would be like saying "I don't believe in them enough"
I have no belief in gods, my belief is absent.
#pedanticofmeiknow
And I note that the verb "lack" says "be without or deficient in" but the noun does not and the general connotation of "lack" is "lacking in" or "not enough" rather than "absent of" or "without".
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RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
November 14, 2016 at 3:06 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 3:07 pm by robvalue.)
(November 14, 2016 at 2:16 pm)Whateverist Wrote: (November 14, 2016 at 2:43 am)robvalue Wrote: It is true that atheism is a pre-emptive position. I'm probably going to say I lack belief in what someone eventually describes as being "God". But they may say something like "The universe is God", in which case I obviously believe in it. So whether I believe, disbelieve, believe to the contrary or just push the person into the nearest trash will depend entirely on their attempts to define "God". Apatheist covers it rather better really. I don't give a shit about anyone's "God", real or imagined.
This is my position, ignosticism. I have a problem with the question. I feel I always require clarification. So it's fair to say I'm not technically an atheist because I don't yet understand what I'm being asked, in the general case. But this is too much detail for most people
And yet as you yourself are fond of pointing out, in the meantime, awaiting a clarification, you'd have to admit you lack belief in gods.
True, yes  I lack belief in even the leanest and most sensible kind of "god" that isn't merely something else re-labelled. It's not just that there is no evidence, it's that the definitions usually preclude the possibility of evidence.
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