If drugs are a religion then crown me the Pope.

(November 18, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Aegon Wrote:

(November 18, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote: Spirituality is attained when you successfully trick yourself into believing there's something outside of reality. It's hard enough for me to even read about without felling like a whack-nut; so I just stay away. Far, far away.

Are you believing something outside of reality, or are you just thinking about reality in a different way? That's what I think Taoism does.

Believing that there is something outside of, or greater than, reality which you can attune to. That's always how I viewed spirituality. Thinking of reality in a different way sounds closer to perspective, rather than spirituality.

Maybe I'm conflating spirituality with the supernatural?

(November 18, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote: Spirituality is attained when you successfully trick yourself into believing there's something outside of reality. It's hard enough for me to even read about without felling like a whack-nut; so I just stay away. Far, far away.

I have to agree.  I'm too logically-minded to even begin to be spiritual.  I just have no use for it in my life.

(November 18, 2016 at 4:11 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote:

(November 18, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Aegon Wrote: Are you believing something outside of reality, or are you just thinking about reality in a different way? That's what I think Taoism does.

Believing that there is something outside of, or greater than, reality which you can attune to. That's always how I viewed spirituality. Thinking of reality in a different way sounds closer to perspective, rather than spirituality.

Maybe I'm conflating spirituality with the supernatural?

I think "spirituality" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I guess stuff like astrology and healing crystals could be considered spiritual, but they are outside reality because they're stupid and don't work. "Spirituality" to me is  a way to be feel more connected with the universe, in a way that examines the things that we already know to be true. Things like meditation, mindfulness, and, of course, psychedelic drugs are ways to do this. It's sort of like looking at the world with a pair of glasses that provides better clarity, while organized religions and some "spiritual" things are trying to design glasses that show you things that are not there. The Tao (the "way") is all about the natural flow of everything; if you better understand that, you'll flow much easier, and you'll be happy. That's what I consider spirituality, and I find I am quite spiritual in this way,

The term 'spiritual' has become..rather a useless term. It has as many definitions as people that use it, and it always requires clarification and specification when someone wants to start a discussion about it. I find it's also kind of a red herring to focus on the term itself and whether or not one calls themselves 'spiritual.' Instead, just get down to what they actually believe, be it healing crystals or some single cosmic consciousness or chi-flow or whatever.

(November 12, 2016 at 8:25 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Some are OK, (mindfulness, vegies, pacifist, .....), some are kooky but benign, one is potentially dangerous.

Pacifism is immoral, brewer.

I am an atheist and I am spiritual.

I just like the sound of it, really, I don't know what spiritual means.

(November 18, 2016 at 4:30 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(November 12, 2016 at 8:25 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Some are OK, (mindfulness, vegies, pacifist, .....), some are kooky but benign, one is potentially dangerous.

Pacifism is immoral, brewer.

Just deplorable. They need to be made to kill, kill, kill!!!!

(November 18, 2016 at 5:33 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(November 18, 2016 at 4:30 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Pacifism is immoral, brewer.

Just deplorable. They need to be made to kill, kill, kill!!!!

Pacifism sounds good in theory. In practice, it's the equivalent of suicide.

(November 18, 2016 at 4:11 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote:

(November 18, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Aegon Wrote: Are you believing something outside of reality, or are you just thinking about reality in a different way? That's what I think Taoism does.

Believing that there is something outside of, or greater than, reality which you can attune to. That's always how I viewed spirituality. Thinking of reality in a different way sounds closer to perspective, rather than spirituality.

Maybe I'm conflating spirituality with the supernatural?

I think so.

I suggest that 'life-enhancing change in perspective' is often a reasonable (if less sexy) synonym for 'spiritual growth' as it is often bandied about. No supernatural beliefs or woo required. Aegon mentions Taoism. I think aspects of Buddhism shorn of some of its metaphysical dogma (and by extension Zen), as well as Yogic practice can lead to profound but entirely natural changes in one's life and relationship to others and the world at large. And of course, the Abrahamic faiths all have traditions of mysticism not wholly dissimilar from those found in Eastern practices, though of course with a rather different religious content associated with them.

I suspect the Buddha, St. John of the Cross, and Laozi most likely would have had much more in common with each other than any of them would have had with lay members/followers of their respective traditions.