(November 23, 2016 at 6:46 pm)The Joker Wrote:

(November 23, 2016 at 6:36 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: All I'll say is that when I was having serious doubts, I prayed to God to show me in a way that I would know for sure that he is real.  Now some 16 year later nothing has ever happened.  So I can safely conclude that either:  A.  God doesn't want me to believe in him, or B.  God doesn't exist.

This is were Pascale Wagar argument kicks in.

Quote:Where are you going to place your bet?If you place it with God, you lose nothing, even if it turns out that God does not exist. But if you place it against God, and you are wrong and God does exist, you lose everything: God, eternity, heaven, infinite gain. "Let us assess the two cases: if you win, you win everything, if you lose, you lose nothing."~Peter Kreeft

(November 23, 2016 at 2:32 pm)The Joker Wrote:

(November 23, 2016 at 2:27 pm)Jesster Wrote: I don't know what "F***" means. You'll have to spell it out for me. That is, unless, it offends you.

I don't like foul text on my posts, O come on, you know what I mean.

(November 24, 2016 at 4:13 am)operator Wrote: It's not a matter of should or should not. But I think you would be well served to be honest with yourself about why you became a Roman Catholic, why you believe in a god that cannot be proven to exist, and why the Holy Bible is a book you think you should learn how to live from. Once you explore those things, honestly, I think you will realize that maybe you are an atheist.

(November 23, 2016 at 4:43 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Tazzycorn Wrote:Why should you reject catholic theology? Because, when looked at objectively and dispassionately, you'll realise that the god you've been taught to believe in is both logically and physically impossible.

Not alone does your got not exist, there is no possibility of him existing.

I'm commenting to Belaco but jumping off Tazzycorn's comment. Tazzycorn may be a gnostic/strong atheist, but all we know from the statement is that it's gnostic/strong atheism in regard to a particular version of God. Being sure Vishnu isn't real isn't the same as being sure that, say, the deist version of God isn't real.

I'm a gnostic atheist towards the God described in the Bible, taken literally. There's no God that flooded the earth or made the sun stand still in the sky or made the universe and the earth in six literal days; because those things didn't happen. I also don't believe in the God of theodicy because it has contradictory attributes (an omnipotent God can do anything, and omniscient God can only do what it has foreseen it will do). The deist God and Vishnu and Artemis don't contain necessary contradictions, so I can't say they're impossible; just that there's very little good reason to think any of them are real; so I'm an agnostic atheist towards them.

(November 23, 2016 at 6:46 pm)The Joker Wrote:

(November 23, 2016 at 6:36 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: All I'll say is that when I was having serious doubts, I prayed to God to show me in a way that I would know for sure that he is real.  Now some 16 year later nothing has ever happened.  So I can safely conclude that either:  A.  God doesn't want me to believe in him, or B.  God doesn't exist.

This is were Pascale Wagar argument kicks in.

Quote:Where are you going to place your bet?If you place it with God, you lose nothing, even if it turns out that God does not exist. But if you place it against God, and you are wrong and God does exist, you lose everything: God, eternity, heaven, infinite gain. "Let us assess the two cases: if you win, you win everything, if you lose, you lose nothing."~Peter Kreeft

(November 22, 2016 at 6:44 pm)Balaco Wrote: Before I begin, I ask that you please avoid being hostile or anything. I'm a Roman Catholic, but I feel like many people of faith immediately jump to degrading atheists as people, rather than trying to understand their mindset. I'm heavily confused right now, and am asking both Catholic and atheist sites for their mindsets. Obviously, Catholics are going to defend Catholicism, while atheists are going to defend atheism. I ask that you please be civil about it, as this could be life-changing for me.


I've been questioning how to improve in my Roman Catholic faith lately...but this morning I came to the realization that I never really questioned my faith itself. I was lightly raised Catholic and recently took it upon myself to grow closer to God. Now, for probably the first time in my life, I feel like I'm genuinely considering atheism as a possibility.

From what I understand, atheists do not accept the possibility of a supernatural being, and restrict themselves to our "natural" human thinking. Previously I thought that atheists are simply conditioned by society to the point where they are unable to "rationally" believe in a supernatural being...God doesn't allow us universally undeniable proof of his existence as a test of faith. Now, though, I feel like it's impossible to tell whether that mindset is correct, or whether atheists are correct in their focusing on our natural human mindsets. I do feel like I've felt something while praying throughout the past. 

The other night, for example, I was planning on praying for about fifteen minutes, but felt oddly calm and ended up taking about an hour. Now I feel like that could have just been because I was comfortable, and my mind was "making things up" as I was more convinced in my faith.


Atheists, why do you reject the idea of God, and why should I? I know that your answers will include "there's no evidence" and all that, but please try to explain.

(November 24, 2016 at 5:31 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(November 23, 2016 at 6:46 pm)The Joker Wrote: This is were Pascale Wagar argument kicks in.

We've been through this already and you try your hardest to not acknowledge the point made. Pascal's wager is wrong because believing in a god does cost you while you are still alive regardless of whether you are correct or not.The Pascal Wagar is a logical arguments it cannot be wrong based on ones private feelings.

 

(November 24, 2016 at 8:10 am)The Joker Wrote:

(November 24, 2016 at 5:31 am)Mathilda Wrote: We've been through this already and you try your hardest to not acknowledge the point made. Pascal's wager is wrong because believing in a god does cost you while you are still alive regardless of whether you are correct or not.The Pascal Wagar is a logical arguments it cannot be wrong based on ones private feelings.

 
The Pascal Wagar is a logical argument, it cannot therefore be wrong based on ones private feelings, the cost issue does not refute the argument.

(November 24, 2016 at 8:10 am)The Joker Wrote:

(November 24, 2016 at 5:31 am)Mathilda Wrote: We've been through this already and you try your hardest to not acknowledge the point made. Pascal's wager is wrong because believing in a god does cost you while you are still alive regardless of whether you are correct or not.The Pascal Wagar is a logical arguments it cannot be wrong based on ones private feelings.

 
The Pascal Wagar is a logical argument, it cannot therefore be wrong based on ones private feelings, the cost issue does not refute the argument.