(January 1, 2017 at 12:50 pm)Chad32 Wrote: If there was one sentence that broke my faith, more than anything, it would be the verse that says if you're lukewarm in the spirit, he will spit you out. I forget where it's stated, but I found that rather insulting. Of course this was back when I was a kid, and they glossed over a lot of the worst parts of the bible. But someone in the church noticed I wasn't giving my all to christ, so they mentioned that line, and I didn't react the way she expected.

She said if I was given a plate of grits, would I rather it hot or lukewarm. And I said if I was hungry, I'd appreciate just being given food. Especially if it was free. To throw it back at the other person because it's not warm enough would be very rude.

This didn't completely break my faith in christianity, but it certainly didn't get the result she was hoping for.

Funny you should mention glossing over, I don't think it's all glossed over, I think it's just we're encouraged to think about it differently. For example, it wasn't until I was in my mid-twenties that it dawned on me that Noah's Ark was about murdering all but 8 people on the planet. We're taught it's a story about salvation rather than condemnation even though it's so obvious if you're on the outside looking in.

(January 1, 2017 at 12:55 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 12:50 pm)Chad32 Wrote: If there was one sentence that broke my faith, more than anything, it would be the verse that says if you're lukewarm in the spirit, he will spit you out. I forget where it's stated, but I found that rather insulting. Of course this was back when I was a kid, and they glossed over a lot of the worst parts of the bible. But someone in the church noticed I wasn't giving my all to christ, so they mentioned that line, and I didn't react the way she expected.

She said if I was given a plate of grits, would I rather it hot or lukewarm. And I said if I was hungry, I'd appreciate just being given food. Especially if it was free. To throw it back at the other person because it's not warm enough would be very rude.

This didn't completely break my faith in christianity, but it certainly didn't get the result she was hoping for.

Funny you should mention glossing over, I don't think it's all glossed over, I think it's just we're encouraged to think about it differently. For example, it wasn't until I was in my mid-twenties that it dawned on me that Noah's Ark was about murdering all but 8 people on the planet. We're taught it's a story about salvation rather than condemnation even though it's so obvious if you're on the outside looking in.

Yeah, they always focused a lot more about the boat, and all the funny animals coming to Noah, and all that. Nevermind that everything else on the planet dies for vague reasons.

Dies HORRIBLY. Infants and children too.

OP: The teen pastor after repeatably not being able to answer questions said something like "I don't care if it does not make sense, you just have to believe". 

Hello door!

(January 1, 2017 at 1:41 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OP: The teen pastor after repeatably not being able to answer questions said something like "I don't care if it does not make sense, you just have to believe". 

Hello door!

You mean the one where I'm referring to AronRa's deconversion? It went something more along the lines of, Aron wasn't sure if the feelings he was having were a genuinely spiritual experience or not, and the preacher grabbed him by the shoulders, shook him, and said "Just keep telling yourself it's Jesus til you believe it!" It was such a blatantly dishonest thing to have said, he couldn't help but have abandoned ship after hearing it.

(January 1, 2017 at 1:45 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 1:41 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OP: The teen pastor after repeatably not being able to answer questions said something like "I don't care if it does not make sense, you just have to believe". 

Hello door!

You mean the one where I'm referring to AronRa's deconversion? It went something more along the lines of, Aron wasn't sure if the feelings he was having were a genuinely spiritual experience or not, and the preacher grabbed him by the shoulders, shook him, and said "Just keep telling yourself it's Jesus til you believe it!" It was such a blatantly dishonest thing to have said, he couldn't help but have abandoned ship after hearing it.

Nope, that was me, my teen pastor, my door.

Ah, I see. Something like in Hitchens' book where he quoted one of his own pastors as saying, "You might not see the truth of this now, or the importance, but wait until you start losing loved ones." Contemptible. As if the only way to deal with grief is to pretend they're sitting on a cloud playing a harp someplace we can't see til we die too.

(January 1, 2017 at 1:52 pm)Astonished Wrote: Ah, I see. Something like in Hitchens' book where he quoted one of his own pastors as saying, "You might not see the truth of this now, or the importance, but wait until you start losing loved ones." Contemptible. As if the only way to deal with grief is to pretend they're sitting on a cloud playing a harp someplace we can't see til we die too.

Is that they guy that looks like Ben Stiller?

Hitchens? Hell no. I don't think anybody looks like Ben Stiller, now that I think about it. Just look him up on youtube, Christopher Hitchens. There's the pre-cancer one and the post-cancer one, and neither resemble Stiller. Neither does AronRa.

I guess I was like many of the folks here. For many years, for decades, I fought to hold on to my “personal relationship with Jesus” against a slow tide of increasing cognitive dissonance, to which the convoluted answers of the church and the bizarre teachings of the bible contributed mightily.

I don’t recall if there was a single moment or event where it all came to a head and it dawned on me that the church was a cesspool of undigested lies it came to many heads.