Quote:but some magical figure that somehow poofed the universe into existence by some undetermined way and for some reason hates the gays.

... and shellfish

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

(January 16, 2017 at 4:03 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(January 16, 2017 at 3:11 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: The difference is that saying "the universe created itself" is not what he said. His implication is that the universe started by some as yet unknown natural process whereas theists not only believe that it was not a natural process but some magical figure that somehow poofed the universe into existence by some undetermined way and for some reason hates the gays.

You can't refer to it as a 'natural' process if the process is unknown, you assume the process to be natural, yet there are absolutely no examples of nature producing anything from nothing.

This would be in violation of the law of Conservation of Energy/ mass

What you describe falls in the realm of supernatural... in other words, magic.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supernatural

Quote:supernatural
1. of, relating to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

Face it, your belief requires just as much faith as mine.

We're agreed then that faith is frivolous and has no bearing on the truth of something.

lol, fish got hooked on his own bait.

(January 16, 2017 at 3:05 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(January 16, 2017 at 2:46 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Are you seriously suggesting the Universe didn't begin?

No, what I'm saying is that trying to pretend that the universe having a creator is somehow more ridiculous than the universe creating itself is kinda delusional...

Or maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, the universe always existed in another form (a singularity possibly), and all that was needed for the expansion was a phase change.

So, yeah, maybe you should avoid the strawmen.

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(January 16, 2017 at 2:09 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(January 16, 2017 at 1:58 pm)Stimbo Wrote: From a guy who literally thinks fairytale magic is real, I'm flattered.

You do realize you believe in 'magic' to a greater degree right? In your case you believe everything appeared out of nothing...

Please just stop with the strawman arguments already!

While there are some physicists that say the universe came from nothing, they do not mean 'nothing' as in complete nonexistence.

The definition that most physicists use for nothing is "no space at all, and no time, no particles, no fields, no laws of nature".

(January 15, 2017 at 7:14 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(January 15, 2017 at 5:05 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Uh, no, they don't.  That's partly what we're trying to explain to you here with this whole tooth fairy thing.

"Why is there something rather than nothing?" There just is.
"Why does the world have a rational order?" It just does.
"Why do causes produce regular effects?" They just do.

Yeah, those are reasonable answers...not.

The questions you pose are bad questions to begin with. They imply purpose.  There is no purpose to there being something rather than nothing.   There is no reason why one alternative is better or more meaningful than the other.  One just happens to be true and there is no purpose to that being the case.

(January 16, 2017 at 5:10 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: lol, fish got hooked on his own bait.

You know what they say about fish with big mouths...

(January 16, 2017 at 5:35 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(January 16, 2017 at 5:10 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: lol, fish got hooked on his own bait.

You know what they say about fish with big mouths...

They sing annoying songs when you mount them on the wall?

Yes. Precisely what I was driving at.

(January 16, 2017 at 5:02 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(January 16, 2017 at 4:03 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: You can't refer to it as a 'natural' process if the process is unknown, you assume the process to be natural, yet there are absolutely no examples of nature producing anything from nothing.

This would be in violation of the law of Conservation of Energy/ mass

What you describe falls in the realm of supernatural... in other words, magic.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supernatural

Face it, your belief requires just as much faith as mine.

We're agreed then that faith is frivolous and has no bearing on the truth of something.

No one said it did..

Think about how many different "faiths" that exists they can't all be true now can they?

(January 16, 2017 at 6:15 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(January 16, 2017 at 5:02 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: We're agreed then that faith is frivolous and has no bearing on the truth of something.

No one said it did..

Think about how many different "faiths" that exists they can't all be true now can they?

No, they can't.