(January 19, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Jesster Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 5:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think we may be on 2 different ships. I'm talking specifically about equating someone's beliefs to beliefs in things that would make them crazy in our society.  

You can think someone's beliefs are in error/ridiculous/false, while still not equating it to belief in the tooth fairy. Because when you do that, you are essentially calling them crazy, bc in our society, only crazy ppl believe in the tooth fairy. 

It's like my example with cheating on your spouse. You can tell someone that cheating on their spouse is wrong/ridiculous/crappy. But when you equate that act to something that only a messed up person would do, like having sex with children, then you are essentially calling them messed up. Because only messed up adults would have sex with kids.

Does believing in the tooth fairy make you crazy? I don't think it does. I think it's a misinformed fantasy that even intelligent, sane people could believe. That's why I equate it to a belief in gods.

Absolutely. If I met an adult in our society who genuinely believed in the tooth fairy, I'd think there is something pretty wrong with them. Whether being crazy, or childish, or just stupid. Because it is not a belief that is held by the people of our society.

As I said, I don't believe Buddha was a God, just as I don't believe the tooth fairy is real. But the fact that one is a commonly held belief and the other is not, changes things about the type of people who would believe in them.

(January 19, 2017 at 5:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Jesster Wrote: Does believing in the tooth fairy make you crazy? I don't think it does. I think it's a misinformed fantasy that even intelligent, sane people could believe. That's why I equate it to a belief in gods.

Absolutely. If I met an adult in our society who genuinely believed in the tooth fairy, I'd think there is something pretty wrong with them. Whether being crazy, or childish, or just stupid. Because it is not a belief that is held by the people of our society.

As I said, I don't believe Buddha was a God, just as I don't believe the tooth fairy is real. But the fact that one is a commonly held belief and the other is not, changes things about the type of people who would believe in those.

Then I am comparing god believers to the tooth fairy believers that I think are not crazy at all. You are the one assigning the "crazy" label to the tooth fairy believers while I am not. If anyone is disrespecting believers, it's not me.

(January 19, 2017 at 4:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Here's the thing. I think the belief that Buddha is a God . . . is 100% false.

Would you be surprised to learn that most Buddhists would totally agree with you?

(January 19, 2017 at 5:16 pm)Jesster Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 5:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Absolutely. If I met an adult in our society who genuinely believed in the tooth fairy, I'd think there is something pretty wrong with them. Whether being crazy, or childish, or just stupid. Because it is not a belief that is held by the people of our society.

As I said, I don't believe Buddha was a God, just as I don't believe the tooth fairy is real. But the fact that one is a commonly held belief and the other is not, changes things about the type of people who would believe in those.

Then I am comparing god believers to the tooth fairy believers that I think are not crazy at all. You are the one assigning the "crazy" label to the tooth fairy believers while I am not. If anyone is disrespecting believers, it's not me.

Ok then lol. 

I have never encountered an adult who believed in the Tooth Fairy. But if I did, I'd think "there's something wrong with you." Because in our society, belief in the Tooth Fairy isn't a "normal" thing done by "normal" people. I actually have never even heard of ANY people believing in her, except little kids. But if you're being completely honest that you would not think anything was very "off" about a grown man or woman who said they believed in the Tooth Fairy, more power to you I suppose.

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(January 19, 2017 at 5:16 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 4:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Here's the thing. I think the belief that Buddha is a God . . . is 100% false.

Would you be surprised to learn that most Buddhists would totally agree with you?

Well that's good. Not really the point of my post though.

*Deleted because my post became a hot mess*

(January 19, 2017 at 5:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 5:16 pm)Jesster Wrote: Then I am comparing god believers to the tooth fairy believers that I think are not crazy at all. You are the one assigning the "crazy" label to the tooth fairy believers while I am not. If anyone is disrespecting believers, it's not me.

Ok then lol. 

I have never encountered an adult who believed in the Tooth Fairy. But if I did, I'd think "there's something wrong with you." Because in our society, belief in the Tooth Fairy isn't a "normal" thing done by "normal" people. I actually have never even heard of ANY people believing in her, except little kids. But if you're being completely honest that you would not think anything "off" about a grown man or woman who said they believed in the Tooth Fairy, more power to you I suppose.

Well, how you view tooth fairy believers is your own prerogative. Don't assume that the way you view them is necessarily the same as my views of them. I seem to give them more respect than you do. I just don't respect the beliefs themselves, while still respecting the tooth fairy believers as people. Sure, tooth fairy belief is far less common among adults, but I don't see it as any less credible than god beliefs. Can you see why I compare these beliefs now?

I think the biggest difference is that there are rational reasons to believe in God and there are none to believe in the tooth fairy. So to equate the two is to intentionally dismiss the fact that people have rational reasons for their belief. Dismissing a person's thinking process in such an open and mocking way is disrespectful and "douchbagish".

As an added note, CL, I do have plenty of respect for you. That's why I bother having real conversations with you. I think you're very level-headed even when I disagree with you.

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(January 19, 2017 at 5:29 pm)SteveII Wrote: I think the biggest difference is that there are rational reasons to believe in God and there are none to believe in the tooth fairy. So to equate the two is to intentionally dismiss the fact that people have rational reasons for their belief. Dismissing a person's thinking process in such an open and mocking way is disrespectful and "douchbagish".

Again, how you view tooth fairy believers is your problem to work out. I am giving them more credit than you are. Maybe you are being the douchebag.

(January 19, 2017 at 5:29 pm)SteveII Wrote: I think the biggest difference is that there are rational reasons to believe in God and there are none to believe in the tooth fairy. So to equate the two is to intentionally dismiss the fact that people have rational reasons for their belief. Dismissing a person's thinking process in such an open and mocking way is disrespectful and "douchbagish".

Do you mean to say there are rational reasons to believe in a Deist god, the god you happen to worship, or any theist's god?

(January 19, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Jesster Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 5:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think we may be on 2 different ships. I'm talking specifically about equating someone's beliefs to beliefs in things that would make them crazy in our society.  

You can think someone's beliefs are in error/ridiculous/false, while still not equating it to belief in the tooth fairy. Because when you do that, you are essentially calling them crazy, bc in our society, only crazy ppl believe in the tooth fairy. 

It's like my example with cheating on your spouse. You can tell someone that cheating on their spouse is wrong/ridiculous/crappy. But when you equate that act to something that only a messed up person would do, like having sex with children, then you are essentially calling them messed up. Because only messed up adults would have sex with kids.

Does believing in the tooth fairy make you crazy? I don't think it does. I think it's a misinformed fantasy that even intelligent, sane people could believe. That's why I equate it to a belief in gods. I think it's right to call out tooth fairy beliefs in the same way it's right to call out god beliefs. It's the beliefs I am pointing at and not the person with the beliefs.

If society accepted it in adults, it's exactly the same thing. The only real difference is we don't teach it as fact to adults, we really probably wouldn't accept adults who believe in it.

That's kind of the point we are trying to make, right?  Look how society doesn't accept these other obviously magical beliefs in adults, and since Christianity is essentially the same sort of thinking, why does it get a pass?  

It's silly and childish, just like believing in the tooth fairy or Santa as an adult would be.  That IS the message atheists who make this comparison are trying to send!  And yes, it actually probably is a bit insulting.  As I said in my probably TL;DR post earlier, I was insulted when it was presented to me when I believed.  I don't think we are trying to be intentionally insulting, just trying to get them to see how silly it is.  It worked for me (though it took time), but I think it backfires for post people, who can't see past their own hurt feelings and emotional needs.