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Atrocities in the Bible
#21
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
(January 24, 2017 at 12:06 am)phoenix31 Wrote:
(January 23, 2017 at 10:46 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Those stories are based upon the 10th Commandment, Exodus 34:26 (NKJV) =  "You shall not not a young goat in its mother's milk".

This is crazy. I had no idea there was another set of commandments carved upon stone and brought down to the people with a radiant face. How come nobody ever mentions those commandments?! I know my Bible pretty damn well and I've never heard of this one. Interesting. Thanks.
The Commandments in Exodus chapter 34 are the real Ten Commandments.  People use the ones from Exodus chapter 20 or Deuteronomy chapter 5 because they are "nicer" and not ethnocentric like the real ones.  I think it would be hard to find too many Bible thumpers who would really want to post the ones in Exodus chapter 34 in every American courthouse.

If you want to have some fun ask your favorite preacher what the Ten Commandments are.  He will lie and say they are the ones from Exodus chapter 20.  

But one you fully understand that the ones in Exodus chapter 34 are the real Ten Commandments you will be able to understand all of the biblical stories.  All of the biblical stories from Adam & Eve to Jesus are based upon those Commandments.
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#22
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
Numbers 5: 19-28 is a passage which not only condones abortipns, but in certain cases (female spousal infidelity) demands that an abortion be carried out.

So next time a christian spouts anti-abortion bullshit at you you can show them how they are defying their god by speading the message.
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#23
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
(January 24, 2017 at 4:42 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The Commandments in Exodus chapter 34 are the real Ten Commandments.  People use the ones from Exodus chapter 20 or Deuteronomy chapter 5 because they are "nicer" and not ethnocentric like the real ones.  I think it would be hard to find too many Bible thumpers who would really want to post the ones in Exodus chapter 34 in every American courthouse.

If you want to have some fun ask your favorite preacher what the Ten Commandments are.  He will lie and say they are the ones from Exodus chapter 20.  

But one you fully understand that the ones in Exodus chapter 34 are the real Ten Commandments you will be able to understand all of the biblical stories.  All of the biblical stories from Adam & Eve to Jesus are based upon those Commandments.

I don't really see a reason to call them the "real" ten commandments. The first set got broken and now another set is made, and it's different, and that's kind of dumb.

Why do you call them the "real" commandments? Because the Israelites were commanded to destroy altars and not make covenants with other people groups, and God promised to drive out other nations, and that influenced their behaviors afterward?

*Edit* I now see that these are the only set of commandments that are actually called the Ten Commandments, so I see your point.
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#24
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
(January 24, 2017 at 12:12 pm)phoenix31 Wrote:
(January 24, 2017 at 4:42 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The Commandments in Exodus chapter 34 are the real Ten Commandments.  People use the ones from Exodus chapter 20 or Deuteronomy chapter 5 because they are "nicer" and not ethnocentric like the real ones.  I think it would be hard to find too many Bible thumpers who would really want to post the ones in Exodus chapter 34 in every American courthouse.

If you want to have some fun ask your favorite preacher what the Ten Commandments are.  He will lie and say they are the ones from Exodus chapter 20.  

But one you fully understand that the ones in Exodus chapter 34 are the real Ten Commandments you will be able to understand all of the biblical stories.  All of the biblical stories from Adam & Eve to Jesus are based upon those Commandments.

I don't really see a reason to call them the "real" ten commandments. The first set got broken and now another set is made, and it's different, and that's kind of dumb.

Why do you call them the "real" commandments? Because the Israelites were commanded to destroy altars and not make covenants with other people groups, and God promised to drive out other nations, and that influenced their behaviors afterward?

*Edit* I now see that these are the only set of commandments that are actually called the Ten Commandments, so I see your point.
Thanks for the follow up.  Remember, the Commandments in Exodus chapter 20 were never written on stone tablets.  The ones in Deuteronomy chapter 5 were written on stone tablets but they are not called the Ten Commandments.  On top of that the biblical stories are not based on them.
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#25
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
(January 24, 2017 at 1:31 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Thanks for the follow up.  Remember, the Commandments in Exodus chapter 20 were never written on stone tablets.  The ones in Deuteronomy chapter 5 were written on stone tablets but they are not called the Ten Commandments.  On top of that the biblical stories are not based on them.

It seems the Bible implies that the "original 10" from Exodus 20 were written in stone.

From Exodus 32-

"And when he had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God."

"And Moses turned and went down from the mountain and the two tablets of the Testimony were in his hand. The tablets were written on both sides; on the one side and on the other they were written. Now the tablets were the work of God and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets...So as it was, as soon as he came near the camp, that he saw the calf and the dancing. So Moses' anger became hot, and he cast the tablets out of his hands and broke them at the foot of the mountain."
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#26
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
(January 24, 2017 at 1:45 pm)phoenix31 Wrote:
(January 24, 2017 at 1:31 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Thanks for the follow up.  Remember, the Commandments in Exodus chapter 20 were never written on stone tablets.  The ones in Deuteronomy chapter 5 were written on stone tablets but they are not called the Ten Commandments.  On top of that the biblical stories are not based on them.

It seems the Bible implies that the "original 10" from Exodus 20 were written in stone.

From Exodus 32-

"And when he had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God."

"And Moses turned and went down from the mountain and the two tablets of the Testimony were in his hand. The tablets were written on both sides; on the one side and on the other they were written. Now the tablets were the work of God and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets...So as it was, as soon as he came near the camp, that he saw the calf and the dancing. So Moses' anger became hot, and he cast the tablets out of his hands and broke them at the foot of the mountain."
You're overlooking a lot of verbiage.

In Exodus chapter 19 Moses and the herd camped in the Sinai wilderness and Moses and God chatted in the cloud.  Moses does a lot of mountain climbing in that chapter and there are a lot of special effects.

In Exodus chapter 20 Moses spews out some generic behavior Commandments that people like to call the Ten Commandments.  But they were not written on stone tablet nor were they called the Ten Commandments although sone Bible versions put that big heading above them.

In Chapters 21-23 Moses is still rambling off the rules.  The guy just wouldn't shut up.
 
In Chapter 24 the people pledge allegiance, Moses does some religious hocus pocus and his inner circle go see God and feast (verse 11).  Moses doe some more mountain climbing, his favorite exercise.  Moses spends forty days and forty nights on the mountain.

In Chapters 25-28 God gives Moses some detailed instructions on how to make some fancy stuff for him, including images of celestial beings which he had said not to do.

In Chapter 29 God tells Moses how to do all of the rituals in fancy robe and turbans.

In Chapter 30 God gives Moses some recipes.  The interesting thing in all of this is that although everyone is wandering around the wilderness like a herd of zombies some are rich and some are poor (verse 15) and everyone over the age of 20 had to put some money in the pot.  

At this point in the story it seems that God had learned his lesson from his failure with Cain and Abel.  In that story he didn't tell them how to worship.  In this story he gives detailed instructions.

Now here's where we get to the meat.

In Chapter 31 verse 18 God finally shuts up and gives Moses two stone tablets, written with the finger of God.

In Chapter 32 the people get nervous since Moses has been gone for so long and they need to worship something or they will have a mental breakdown.  So they get the dummy Aaron to make them an idol and they start partying, exercising freedom of religion.  God and Moses hears the noise.  God gets pissed and tells Moses that he's going to gut all of them  Moses says, chill big guy, let me do it. So Moses takes the stone tablets (verses 15-16) and goes down the mountain. In verse 19 Moses flies into a rage and breaks the stone tablets.  He then gets his trusted thugs and killed about three thousand.

In Chapter 33 the herd hits the road and goes to Mount Horeb.  God and Moses make up.

In Chapter 34 God tells Moses to make some more stone tablets and go to Mount Sinai.  This is when Moses get the real Ten Commandments.

Review the chapters at your convenience and reach your own conclusions.
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#27
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
Your version of the Bible is way more entertaining than mine. Smile

What do you think the first set of stone tablets was?
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#28
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
(January 24, 2017 at 3:01 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: Your version of the Bible is way more entertaining than mine. Smile

What do you think the first set of stone tablets was?

According to the fairy tale in Exodus 34:1 the second set contained the same words that were on the first set.  And it still took 40 days and forty nights to get the job done whereas God created everything in the Universe in 6+ days.  He was a really slow writer.
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#29
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
I think one of the biggest pitfalls biblical critics face is grasping at straws. One carefully constructed argument centered around one verse is more persuasive than throwing scores of verses against the wall and hoping one criticism sticks.

In my case, whenever I'm involved in a discussion on biblical atrocities, I really only bring up one example: 1 Samuel 15:3...

"3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

This is God commanding Saul to kill babies. If God didn't command this, then the Bible lies; if it lies it can't be inerrant or inspired.

So I ask Christians to agree or disagree with the following moral proposition: "Is it always wrong to kill an infant?"

If they say yes, then they have admitted that God authored sin by commanding Saul to sin.
If they say no, that it's okay to kill an infant if God says it's okay, then they have just proven to me that there moral system doesn't exclude pure barbarism, so why should I follow it and consider it the best moral system there is?

I find it curious how many Christians will decry non-believers as being moral relativists, but they don't realize they are moral relativists too! According to Christians the morality of an act is relative to how God feels about it in particular contexts. In the case of the Amalekites, it's okay to kill babies as if they were enemy combatants. But when a mother will die without a late-term abortion, that's not okay, not now not ever.
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#30
RE: Atrocities in the Bible
Of course the typical response will be we can't judge it because we have no moral foundation blah blah blah we need a moral dictator blah blah blah . Fact is neither do they to call this just or right so even making this counter is vapid
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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