Religion is always the same old horseshit.  MK seems determined to prove that everyday.

(March 21, 2017 at 6:24 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Either greatness is derived from imagination or it's derived from real existence.

Greatness is an opinion.

Quote:A thing that points that it's from real living existence is that our good actions, the more "life" force they have, the more praiseworthy they are.

Not quite sure what you said but praiseworthiness is another matter of opinion.

Quote:Furthermore, if we simply imagine, but don't actually bring to existence our actions, it's obvious existing actions are more praiseworthy and great.
This shows greatness is derived from existence, not mere imagination.

No it's not. One does not have to praise something imagined or actually done.

Quote:Do you agree with this much so far?

No but I admit that I find it hard to follow what you are saying.

The problem with the OP is that a semantic "proof" of God equivocates-- there's the God which actually exists, and which quite obviously exists only as a concept, and then there's the God which somebody WANTS to exist-- which is quite obviously a fairy tale, and exists ONLY AS a fairy tale.

(March 21, 2017 at 2:27 pm)KUSA Wrote: Greatness is an opinion.

What is the opinion about? Is it things outside of existence or things part of existence?

If you say opinion is about something outside of existence, I think that is non-sensical, how did we get an opinion on non-existence?

If say it's about things part of existence, then what about ultimate greatness?

Or is there some opinion on the greatness that we derive about existence while other about non-existence?

The reality is that the name "existence" and "living" point to the same thing the name "that which is worshipped".

It can be said there is nothing to be fully valued but existence (all-existence), unless you feel there is more value then existence or less value than all existence that exists? 

I think there is bi-directional mapping of the name "value" and "existence".

I know this hard, but try to understand, that if some things part of existence have value, then the (all) existence has all-value. It's really silly to say yes all value relates to existence except the highest.

 which quite obviously exists only as a concept,



This is what is being shown to be impossible.

Edit: Lol, never mind. You fixed the double posts. That keeps happening with you.

(March 22, 2017 at 12:21 am)MysticKnight Wrote: I know this hard, but try to understand, that if some things part of existence have value, then the (all) existence has all-value. It's really silly to say yes all value relates to existence except the highest.

The point being made here is that existence doesn't have objective value.

(March 22, 2017 at 12:21 am)MysticKnight Wrote: What is the opinion about? Is it things outside of existence or things part of existence?

Greatness is an opinion relative to the values of the person evaluating the given thing. To you, a shiny new bar of gold might be pretty great, but if I drop you in the middle of the desert the greatness of that gold is overshadowed by that of a simple bottle of water. How great a thing is is directly proportional to the current needs of the person doing the evaluating, it's not an inherent part of the object itself.

In this way, existence cannot be considered a component of greatness, for there are plenty of things that most people would be consider greater for not existing. An imaginary plague of locusts is deeply preferable to a real one, after all.

Besides which, you're sort of palming a card here, which is that if your argument goes that god is the greatest possible being, and greatness is enhanced by existence, there are actually two options, not the one you're espousing, which is that therefore your god exists. The other one is that you're simply wrong about god being the greatest possible being, assuming the second premise to be true.

You... you do understand that it's possible for you to be wrong about that, yes?

(March 22, 2017 at 4:11 am)Esquilax Wrote: Greatness is an opinion relative to the values of the person evaluating the given thing. To you, a shiny new bar of gold might be pretty great, but if I drop you in the middle of the desert the greatness of that gold is overshadowed by that of a simple bottle of water. How great a thing is is directly proportional to the current needs of the person doing the evaluating, it's not an inherent part of the object itself.

There's a story somewhere about a rich businessman on his deathbed, who chooses to divide cheques for his millions between strangers chosen randomly from phone books. They are all overjoyed at this sudden, anonymous windfall, but then come to find it's not the blessing they imagined. One of them, for instance, runs into trouble trying to convince people that the cheque is real, ending up in prison and losing his home and friends. Finally, he can't even give it away for a glass of water on Skid Row.

(March 22, 2017 at 12:21 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 2:27 pm)KUSA Wrote: Greatness is an opinion.

What is the opinion about?

It's about what "greatness" means.

Quote: Is it things outside of existence

Nope. "Greatness" is not a thing.

Quote: or things part of existence?

Nope. It's still not a thing.



If you don't know what "things" are, then it's not surprising that you think God might be a thing.