(March 23, 2017 at 12:10 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(March 23, 2017 at 12:09 am)Stimbo Wrote: Subjective to oneself. Objective to others. This much should be obvious, surely?

Who you are as a person is objective to others?

Who I am as a person is reflected in my character and my actions, which influences other's perceptions of me, certainly.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:13 am)Stimbo Wrote: Who I am as a person is reflected in my character and my actions, which influences other's perceptions of me, certainly.

I can go with something like this. I objectively exist, but how anyone views me (including my own view) is a subjective view of me.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:11 am)Jesster Wrote:

(March 23, 2017 at 12:10 am)MysticKnight Wrote: You avoided it.

You missed it.

If you are subjective, who you are as a person is not real.
And if you are objective, it must have an objective basis...a universal objective basis....which you are not.

So if you are real, then an objective judge and perceive to who you are is real.

One thing we know about ourselves is that we and others don't fully know ourselves while we are defined by perception.

This means there is a being who sees us as we are.

What is more so is whatever value we have get's it's value relative to that being, which we cannot see, because it's absolute judgment and value.


If you are bothered by rambling and uneloquent way of putting things...I suggest you give God and his chosen ones a chance, his holy book and those tasked to explain it. Don't accept them right away but if guidance is to be achieved and sight is to be gained, your best bet is God.

So research religion, try to discover who you truly are, and search that guidance through the guides appointed to lead you and who you should follow while you should not follow yourself in your little knowledge nor others who you can never know are guided unless proven by God they are (which he only does regarding the reminders and the families of the reminders).

(March 23, 2017 at 12:17 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(March 23, 2017 at 12:11 am)Jesster Wrote: You missed it.

If you are subjective, who you are as a person is not real.
And if you are objective, it must have an objective basis...a universal objective basis....which you are not.

So if you are real, then an objective judge and perceive to who you are is real.

One thing we know about ourselves is that we and others don't fully know ourselves while we are defined by perception.

This means there is a being who sees us as we are.

What is more so is whatever value we have get's it's value relative to that being, which we cannot see, because it's absolute judgment and value.


If you are bothered by rambling and uneloquent way of putting things...I suggest you give God and his chosen ones a chance, his holy book and those tasked to explain it. Don't accept them right away but if guidance is to be achieved and sight is to be gained, your best bet is God.

So research religion, try to discover who you truly are, and search that guidance through the guides appointed to lead you and who you should follow while you should not follow yourself in your little knowledge nor others who you can never know are guided unless proven by God they are (which he only does regarding the reminders and the families of the reminders).

The act of judging is using personal subjectivity. I exist regardless of someone else's feelings about it.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:18 am)Jesster Wrote:

(March 23, 2017 at 12:17 am)MysticKnight Wrote: If you are subjective, who you are as a person is not real.
And if you are objective, it must have an objective basis...a universal objective basis....which you are not.

So if you are real, then an objective judge and perceive to who you are is real.

One thing we know about ourselves is that we and others don't fully know ourselves while we are defined by perception.

This means there is a being who sees us as we are.

What is more so is whatever value we have get's it's value relative to that being, which we cannot see, because it's absolute judgment and value.


If you are bothered by rambling and uneloquent way of putting things...I suggest you give God and his chosen ones a chance, his holy book and those tasked to explain it. Don't accept them right away but if guidance is to be achieved and sight is to be gained, your best bet is God.

So research religion, try to discover who you truly are, and search that guidance through the guides appointed to lead you and who you should follow while you should not follow yourself in your little knowledge nor others who you can never know are guided unless proven by God they are (which he only does regarding the reminders and the families of the reminders).

The act of judging is using personal subjectivity. I exist regardless of someone else's feelings about it.

You can't exist outside of perception. Your body you can argue you can, but you as in who you are must generated in some perception. Most people think that perception is themselves, yet what is real is something else truly sees them as they are while they only have some fuzzy scent of who they are.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:19 am)MysticKnight Wrote: You can't exist outside of perception. Your body can, but you must generated in some perception. Most people think that perception is themselves, yet what is real is something else truly sees them as they are while they only have some fuzzy scent of who they are.

There's another big claim.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:20 am)Jesster Wrote:

(March 23, 2017 at 12:19 am)MysticKnight Wrote: You can't exist outside of perception. Your body can, but you must generated in some perception. Most people think that perception is themselves, yet what is real is something else truly sees them as they are while they only have some fuzzy scent of who they are.

There's another big claim.

It's not a big claim. Either your brain generates this sight of who you are and maintains it or something else does. It's not your brain, and so something else does. Who you are contains qualtive things like traits that are all to be perceived as they are not physical.

This is like saying love doesn't require a perception. Love requires perception. It's like saying thoughts require no perception. It makes no sense.

Your brain is no basis to absolutely judge you and know you as you are.

You are because God sees you as you are and not only that but defines you as is everything is defined with respect to him.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:23 am)MysticKnight Wrote: It's not a big claim. Either your brain generates this sight of who you are and maintains it or something else does. It's not your brain, and so something else does. Who you are contains qualtive things like traits that are all to be perceived.

This is like saying love doesn't require a perception. Love requires perception. It's like saying thoughts require no perception. It makes no sense.

Your brain is no basis to absolutely judge you and know you as you are.

You are because God sees you as you are and not only that but defines you as is everything is defined with respect to him.

Okay, we have evidence of brains. You're making a claim of something else, though.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:26 am)Jesster Wrote:

(March 23, 2017 at 12:23 am)MysticKnight Wrote: It's not a big claim. Either your brain generates this sight of who you are and maintains it or something else does. It's not your brain, and so something else does. Who you are contains qualtive things like traits that are all to be perceived.

This is like saying love doesn't require a perception. Love requires perception. It's like saying thoughts require no perception. It makes no sense.

Your brain is no basis to absolutely judge you and know you as you are.

You are because God sees you as you are and not only that but defines you as is everything is defined with respect to him.

Okay, we have evidence of brains. You're making a claim of something else, though.

Seeds....perhaps you will think of this more. 

Who knows themselves, knows their Lord.

---

Either your brain:

Makes you inherit your actions and maintains your exact value objectively whence every brain would have to be an objective absolute judge.

Or it's God the real absolute judge who maintains every soul by what it has earned.

I don't think it's the brain...you can believe whatever you want.

(March 23, 2017 at 12:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Seeds....perhaps you will think of this more. 

Who knows themselves, knows their Lord.

You could just say "I give up". Bye then.