(April 6, 2017 at 7:05 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

(April 6, 2017 at 6:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I was saying i HAD met protestants who say Catholics aren't Christians.

"Jews for Jesus" are getting to be, in my view, the reference standard for understanding Jesus and following His lead.  So imagine where I'm thinking protestants and catholics rate in the big scheme of things, [snicker].

BTW;

driving on the right = Protestantism

driving on the left = Catholicism

Um no, there are liberals and conservatives in every sect. While on average there are more liberal  Catholics in certain geographics there are right wing Catholics, IE "The Catholic League" which is on par with the same bullshit bigotry as Falwell and his Southern White Evangelical bigotry.

It is as stupid as assuming all Jews are liberals. I can link you to a couple of stories in Israel where conservative Jews held up commercial passenger jets because a handful of sexist asshole Jews refused to sit next to women. 

Even with atheists, it is false to assume every atheist values Ayn Rand on the economic right or assume we all value Che who lead to Cuba on the far left. I am neither.

"Right" isn't such a label thing as it reflects individuals who buy into fear and otherism which is the bad side of our species. "Left" also isn't automatically "no rules" or "nanny state" godless lawlessness as the right would believe.

I think all of our species still boils down to the individual and still is a struggle over how we either cooperate or fight over resources. 

I see humanity more in terms of empathy vs fear, greed vs sharing.

"What are the Characteristics of a NT Christian?"

They scream when you push them in front of a bus?

Catholics are pretty politically diverse. There are plenty of liberals, but plenty of conservatives, too. It's hard because there are Catholic issues on both sides of the fence. The official Catholic stance on abortion is right wing, but their stance on the death penalty is left wing, for example.

What are the Characteristics of a NT Christian?

• (In many cases) an irrational devotion to the bible as something fool proof.

• They tend to be bigger than a bread box.

• Many seem strangely suspicious of science for fear it'll contradict the special book.

• The fundamentalist sort embrace the most fantastic beliefs - like an afterlife, judgement with eternal fantasy island if you are compliant toward the big Guy's demands or an eternity on the Bar B if not.

• Most utilize the word "belief" to express what most of us would call a "hope".

• Very few are willing to be humble about the justification for their beliefs, so very few agnostic theists.

To clarify:

Jews for Jesus would represent the closest modern era example of what 'Bible Jesus' was aiming for. Protestants, Catholics, Mormons (snicker) have totally, completely, and utterly fucked up.

And I'm not saying the Jews for Jesus are doing much right either, it's just that they are doing more right than the Protestants, Catholics, and Mormons (snicker) are since they aren't doing anything right.

P,C, M = a clock with no hands

J = a stopped clock which is correct for 2 minutes out of every 1440.


(and as always, my evaluation is based on their own sacred scriptures and their evident fealty and piety {read that as lack thereof} in complying with them)

Um, my bad I guess?

(April 6, 2017 at 8:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Catholics are pretty politically diverse. There are plenty of liberals, but plenty of conservatives, too. It's hard because there are Catholic issues on both sides of the fence. The official Catholic stance on abortion is right wing, but their stance on the death penalty is left wing, for example.

No, EVERY label is politically diverse. Even atheists. 

The Vatican at is core has to constantly be drug kicking and screaming to get up with the times. Pope John Paul was considered far too liberal to those even within the ranks. Pope Benedict pulled the church back to the social right. Frances went more to the center. But even he pissed me off with his comments about Hebdo. And he placated homophobe Kim Davis. He has literally said one thing to the west about marriage only to later go to parts of Asia to say "we need to defend traditional marriage".

Even atheists miss my point. Labels don't constitute empathy, our ability to have compassion is in our evolution, not the labels we assign ourselves or others. I have run into plenty of economic right atheists  or libertarian atheists while they might agree that gays and pot smoking are fine, still have the same "fuck you I got mine" "all taxes are robbery" that right wingers of theism advocate. 

Conversely I have also run into Che supporting atheists who stupidly think you can rid a planet of 7 billion of the private sector and I find that equally absurd. 

Liberals and conservatives exist in every religion and even atheists.

(April 5, 2017 at 10:04 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: SteveII, you have identified a helpful list of orthopraxy, but remain silent about orthodoxy. Is it not also true that these "fruits" are expected to follow from knowledge God's Grace, Christ's work on the Cross, and true repentance?

 
Neo, I forgot to come back to this point after the initial flurry of posts.

Yes, I think that these are supposed to flow from the knowledge of God's Grace, Christ's work on the Cross, and true repentance. I would add that depending on the person, some of these characteristics might require hard work and discipline (as in structured focus)--and not just happen automatically. Still other characteristics, God might help you work on--bringing about circumstances that help you develop as a Christian and make you more useful to Him and others.

(April 7, 2017 at 8:07 am)SteveII Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 10:04 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: SteveII, you have identified a helpful list of orthopraxy, but remain silent about orthodoxy. Is it not also true that these "fruits" are expected to follow from knowledge God's Grace, Christ's work on the Cross, and true repentance?

 
Neo, I forgot to come back to this point after the initial flurry of posts.

Yes, I think that these are supposed to flow from the knowledge of God's Grace, Christ's work on the Cross, and true repentance. I would add that depending on the person, some of these characteristics might require hard work and discipline (as in structured focus)--and not just happen automatically. Still other characteristics, God might help you work on--bringing about circumstances that help you develop as a Christian and make you more useful to Him and others.

Ugggg, sad you find such a vile story moral. It is an act of torture, you like worshiping an act of torture?

(April 6, 2017 at 4:06 pm)SteveII Wrote: Bart Ehrman is a NT skeptic with an important-to-note bias--he does not believe in God.  Am is supposed to type out a list of scholars who disagree with him? That would be an appeal to authority. 

God forbid anybody be skeptical of the supernatural.  The fact that he does not believe gives him more credibility than the scholars/apologists that do believe.