(July 13, 2011 at 8:39 pm)Ziggystardust Wrote: When I find out more about the universe (which is something I do a fair bit of), it confirms my belief there is nothing beyond nature (natural things, forces, and causes of the kind studied by the natural sciences).

As science describes nature I don't see how science can describe supernature. Surely your statement is wrong?

Ace Otana Wrote:So...let me get this right....you think I should show respect to their beliefs when their beliefs tell of not just me being sent to hell to be tortured, but my loved ones also? Get stuffed!
Respect is earnt!

Fuck their god, their bible and their whole religion.

Napoleon Wrote:Repect is earned, not demanded.

Religion can go suck a horse's bollock.

Again I never suggested what anyone should or should not do. Who I am to be telling others what they should do? I merely stated a fact that some religious users who come here will find that offensive.

As far as showing respect to the beliefs of others as a general principle, I believe it is a more constructive behavioral practice, yes. Regardless of what the beliefs of others are, each person has their own moral codes and standards. As long as they do not outwardly use their religion as an excuse to disrespect me, then i don't think it is fair that I should not disrespect them by disrespecting their religion. That is religious tolerance. When people start disrespecting the beliefs of others, because those beliefs, indirectly, call them names, no one is going to get anywhere, even if you have some justification in your actions.

There is also the condition that (and i think it is fair to say this) atheist are the wiser of the two groups as far as religious beliefs go. This, I believe, in some way, gives atheist the responsibility, however small, to be the "bigger man" so to speak. In general, religious people take it personally when someone blasphemies their God. For them, it is no different than disrespecting their loved one. Atheist on the other hand have no vulnerability to such a disposition because they do not treat anyone's God as real. You can't tell me that you really care, or are emotional effected by, what christian's believe is Jehovah's opinion of you and your family is.

In other words, you may have some justification, or reasonable cause, to blasphemy a religious God but you are probably not being the "bigger man" by doing so. Martin Luther King Jr.'s actions, for example, describes what I mean by being the bigger man.

I'm 23 years old now but when I was younger, around 16-17, I used to question people's religious beliefs all the time. I found it fun and it made me feel superior, though I would not have admitted that at the time. After a while, it was not as fun because people would get so offended. I was hurting them in some way, so I stopped. Now, I don't even discuss my religious beliefs with religious people at all. Most of the time they assume I'm christian. Even when they tell me what Jesus wants for me, I just nod my head move on with what we were discussing.

I just think it is a more socially constructive practice not to disrespect the beliefs of others, especially when there is no immediate provocation. Though I have not yet told anyone that they should or should not.

DaveD Wrote:And I don't respect people who presume to tell me what I think.

Again, I was not presuming to tell anyone what they think. My original definition of atheist was not actually the definition of an atheist and, therefore, does not apply to you. Even still, I only suggested what is reasonably true of someone who does fit my definition. I've not presumed to tell anyone what they think at any time.

Quote:Again I never suggested what anyone should or should not do. Who I am to be telling others what they should do? I merely stated a fact that some religious users who come here will find that offensive.

I don't give a fuck.

Quote:As far as showing respect to the beliefs of others as a general principle, I believe it is a more constructive behavioral practice, yes. Regardless of what the beliefs of others are, each person has their own moral codes and standards.

U-huh. Some people with their idiotic world views and religious moral codes deem it ok to fly airplanes into buildings. You think I should respect them and their beliefs too?

Respect is earnt. And people who think it's ok for a god to send good people to hell, will never get a speck of respect from me.

Ace Otana Wrote:U-huh. Some people with their idiotic world views and religious moral codes deem it ok to fly airplanes into buildings. You think I should respect them and their beliefs too?

My statement obviously does not apply to those would fly airplanes into buildings as I made it clear what would be an acceptable nature of moral code to merit religious tolerance.

Ace Otana Wrote:Respect is earnt. And people who think it's ok for a god to send good people to hell, will never get a speck of respect from me.

Its not that they think it is ok, but that it is the will of God which they are powerless to change. Many people have a problem with the idea of hell altogether but feel that there is nothing they can do it about it.

It is fine if you do not wish to respect or tolerate the religious beliefs of others, but that kind of thinking only keeps people more divided in the end.

Quote:My statement obviously does not apply to those would fly airplanes into buildings as I made it clear what would be an acceptable nature of moral code to merit religious tolerance.

If a person, does anything I deem stupid or immoral, I'll have no respect for them. If people state that I or my family members will be harmed, religiously or not. I'll have no respect for them.
Respect is earnt. I won't back down from that.

Quote:Its not that they think it is ok, but that it is the will of God which they are powerless to change. Many people have a problem with the idea of hell altogether but feel that there is nothing they can do it about it.

People invented religion, so there is no excuse.

Quote:It is fine if you do not wish to respect or tolerate the religious beliefs of others, but that kind of thinking only keeps people more divided in the end.

Religion has always divided people, and will continue to do so.

(July 14, 2011 at 7:28 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(July 13, 2011 at 8:39 pm)Ziggystardust Wrote: When I find out more about the universe (which is something I do a fair bit of), it confirms my belief there is nothing beyond nature (natural things, forces, and causes of the kind studied by the natural sciences).

As science describes nature I don't see how science can describe supernature. Surely your statement is wrong?

Nature encompasses all. Supernatural is merely the artifact of a part of nature, namely some man, in trying to pretend that he knows something about some grand order of universe, must whitewash the fact that his fiction lack compatibility with what his audience might already know of nature. So the supernatural is a phenomenon of the natural world just as much, and in the same way, as any tale of fiction or any man made lie or deceit, and so is within descriptive power of science. Science can not describe god because there is no god. But science in theory has within it's power to fully describe why you think there is a god, how you would think there is a god, the precise attributes you would say of god each time you defend your inconstant fiction, and precisely what impact this dishoest quibbling would have on you, those around you, and society in general.

(July 14, 2011 at 7:28 am)fr0d0 Wrote: As science describes nature I don't see how science can describe supernature.

Sure it can. The word you are looking for is "false".

(July 14, 2011 at 8:45 am)Alastor Wrote: I just think it is a more socially constructive practice not to disrespect the beliefs of others, especially when there is no immediate provocation.

OK, tell that to the Christians who come here telling us that we're all going to hell for having different beliefs than they do.

(July 14, 2011 at 8:45 am)Alastor Wrote: As far as showing respect to the beliefs of others as a general principle, I believe it is a more constructive behavioral practice, yes.

Really? You think it's constructive to allow a child's fairy tale to become the overriding factor in people's lives? You think it's constructive to allow these fairytales to be given the same respect as another point of view which has infinitely more evidence to support it?

I don't think it's 'constructive' in the slightest, all it does is show that we give respect to stupidity. I'd much rather see everyone make a mockery of religion, because that's exactly what it is.

PC culture is for cunts.