(April 18, 2017 at 4:53 pm)YahwehIsTheWay Wrote: Ridiculous.

Those who believe God exists outside of space and time are saying He exists nowhere and at no time. 

The Wholly Babble makes it clear the Lord walked, talked, played hide-and-seek, wrestled with Jacob, gave a speech to the entire nation of Judea and showed off his impressive cock to Ezekiel. 

The Lord is apparently hot and hung.

This doesn't just apply to the Gods of Abraham. Your rightful objection doesn't just apply to Jesus or Yahweh or Allah. It applies, or should I say your rightful objection and skepticism should apply to all claims of the supernatural. Gods/god/s/deities/entity/super natural. 

If the Christian can accept all other God/s or god/s as false, and conversely, in all directions besides one's own pet claim, that also means the Jew and Muslim rejects all other claims besides their own. But that still doesn't mean a pass should be given to the superstitions of Hinduism or Buddhism. It still remains with old mythology, and new age woo, that everyone has a pet claim, and nobody wants neutral independent peer review. If you buy something, you are going to only accept the claims of others up and until it upsets your own idea of being the top of the chain.

(April 17, 2017 at 4:47 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(April 17, 2017 at 12:41 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The magical sky-daddy can be anything the assholes wish him to be.  That's part of being "magic."

Pretty much this - if there's going to be an appeal to magic at any point, anything is possible, and there's no point in trying to explain it.

Yep. Moreover, how does attributing anything to a magical being who acts in a manner beyond our understanding count as an explanation .. at all .. for anything .. ever? Theists sure like to boast that they have answers to more of life's big question than we do. But when you look at the quality of those answers the feeling is more one of pity than jealousy.

(April 18, 2017 at 4:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 4:46 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: God is outside time and also space. Take the String Theory: God must be outside of these time/space-segments that make up the components of what we call string; or bubble of existence.

I never read the creation story with full details in Christianity; but the argument is still there: "talk to people with their language if you wanted them to understand.."

Name me one peer reviewed String Theory that points to Allah or Yahweh or Jesus or Buddha or Yahweh or Thor or Yoda.

It cant be that humans simply make up God/gods/super natural? Let me guess all scientific arguments point to your pet claim right? Well, get in line, take a number.

I don't need to; there is no doubt about the seen and measured.
In other words: there's no smoke without a fire. Metaphorically, of course.

That's why I was never born inside a wall.

(April 18, 2017 at 5:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 4:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Name me one peer reviewed String Theory that points to Allah or Yahweh or Jesus or Buddha or Yahweh or Thor or Yoda.

It cant be that humans simply make up God/gods/super natural? Let me guess all scientific arguments point to your pet claim right? Well, get in line, take a number.

I don't need to; there is no doubt about the seen and measured.
In other words: there's no smoke without a fire. Metaphorically, of course.

That's why I was never born inside a wall.

There's plenty of doubt.

What you have is CLAIMS.  And you expect the rest of us to accept the claims on the word of people who accept those claims blindly but are unable to provide evidence to the rest of us when we request it.

You wouldn't accept such claims from people of other religions, or those who claim to have been abducted by aliens.  Therefore, why should we accept your claims?

Thank you everybody!  (And don't stop. I have been enjoying reading your responses and looking through my notes.)  But for this particular person, IF the subject comes up again, I know where I will start:  with time and "presence" references to god from the Bible.  I have read a lot of xtian articles on the subject, (sigh) and there are quite a few that argue that the "outside of time" theory is not Biblical.  It will be a good starting point.  ("Biblical" means nothing to me but it's important to her.)

After all, the response is a dodge, designed to shut down any questions.  I'm pretty sure she would admit that - before she would say something like "god isn't limited by the laws of physics" or something like that.   That would lead us into omnipotence and omniscience and omnipresence and all of that stuff that's pretty easy to tie in logical knots.  

But still - carry on.  I'm learning from you guys!  Thanks.

-- Fuzz

(April 18, 2017 at 5:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 4:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Name me one peer reviewed String Theory that points to Allah or Yahweh or Jesus or Buddha or Yahweh or Thor or Yoda.

It cant be that humans simply make up God/gods/super natural? Let me guess all scientific arguments point to your pet claim right? Well, get in line, take a number.

I don't need to; there is no doubt about the seen and measured.
In other words: there's no smoke without a fire. Metaphorically, of course.

That's why I was never born inside a wall.

Ok fine,

"Where there is smoke, there is fire, therefore Yoda"
"Where there is smoke, there is fire, therefore for Jesus"
'Where there is smoke, there is fire, therefore Yahweh"
'Where there is smoke, there is fire, there fore Buddha" 
'Where there is smoke, there is fire, therefore Hindu creator God Brhama"

By that logic, since I am a real person, and Angelina Jolie is a provable real person, by that logic, because I find her sexy, and like blowjobs, that means if I claim "Angelina Jolie is my wife and loves giving me blowjobs", by that logic, all it takes to be right is to utter a claim. 

The "smoke" and "fire" is pointing to humans making shit up, not an actual god existing otherwise I really had sex with Angelina Jolie. Wanting something to be true only means you want it to be true.

(April 18, 2017 at 5:28 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 5:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I don't need to; there is no doubt about the seen and measured.
In other words: there's no smoke without a fire. Metaphorically, of course.

That's why I was never born inside a wall.

There's plenty of doubt.

What you have is CLAIMS.  And you expect the rest of us to accept the claims on the word of people who accept those claims blindly but are unable to provide evidence to the rest of us when we request it.

You wouldn't accept such claims from people of other religions, or those who claim to have been abducted by aliens.  Therefore, why should we accept your claims?

The details differ between one theist claim to the other, but the existence of a creator is always a constant in all claims. 
Believing which story is true depends on variables like personal experiences. 

Eventually; it depends on you, and which choice are you going to choose?

Brian37

Giving names is -in my view- the first mistake: sticking to the name "creator" is more accurate.
There are two types of God:
-Personal God
-The God of order, simplicity, elegance...etc.

The creator -in my view- is above all these human names they give for their Gods. A personal and God of order, is what I prefer to believe in.
Christianity did the mistake of turning God into a personal God only; represented in Jesus, the Father/Son concept. 

The creator -in my view- is the God that got twisted in human sight to be "Yoda-Budha...etc".
Allah only means "God". It's the Arabic word for "God".

(April 18, 2017 at 7:11 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 5:28 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: There's plenty of doubt.

What you have is CLAIMS.  And you expect the rest of us to accept the claims on the word of people who accept those claims blindly but are unable to provide evidence to the rest of us when we request it.

You wouldn't accept such claims from people of other religions, or those who claim to have been abducted by aliens.  Therefore, why should we accept your claims?

The details differ between one theist claim to the other, but the existence of a creator is always a constant in all claims. 
Believing which story is true depends on variables like personal experiences. 

Eventually; it depends on you, and which choice are you going to choose?

Brian37

Giving names is -in my view- the first mistake: sticking to the name "creator" is more accurate.
There are two types of God:
-Personal God
-The God of order, simplicity, elegance...etc.

The creator -in my view- is above all these human names they give for their Gods. A personal and God of order, is what I prefer to believe in.
Christianity did the mistake of turning God into a personal God only; represented in Jesus, the Father/Son concept. 

The creator -in my view- is the God that got twisted in human sight to be "Yoda-Budha...etc".
Allah only means "God". It's the Arabic word for "God".

UGGGGGG,

YES most people have a deity/god belief, NO SHIT. If someone sold you the idea that it would be great to jump of a cliff, would you do it? You are confusing the different jumps of absurdity, being a cliff, skyscraper, bridge as all being the same different good logic of the same BAD LOGIC.

Most people believe in a God. NO SHIT. I agree, and that says to me that most people simply project their own human qualities in the form of a super hero version of their own desires. Most humans once believed the earth was flat. So because humans have all sorts of fantasies that makes yours the top fantasy where all others are merely misguided interpretations of your fantasy? So if it is all God speaking in different languages, somehow you think that is a new argument other religions have not made?

I bet you most Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists,  and Christians don't buy the ancient Greek or Roman or Egyptian gods.  My bet is that it scares most humans to think that in 2,000 years, if we dont blow ourselves up, their religions will be viewed as mythology and people will be praying to Yoda and Captain Kirk and Harry Potter.

(April 18, 2017 at 5:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I don't need to; there is no doubt about the seen and measured.
In other words: there's no smoke without a fire. Metaphorically, of course.

That's why I was never born inside a wall.

bold mine

A uterus has walls.

of course there are theists who are gonna thoughts exist outside of time . Yeah expect though occur in the brain . Are made up of concepts and connection as reflections of stuff in time and space. Plus as it has been said to except this you would have to accept that thoughts exist nowhere and at no time did I think them.