If God would heal an amputee, that would convince me.  The so-called Miracle of Calanda is rife with problems, though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda

For starters, where is Pellicer's body?

(April 30, 2017 at 11:37 am)Mermaid Wrote: I work with some of the most talented and brilliant scientists in the world, many of whom are religious. Some of them are verrrrrry religious. I don't think it's about intelligence or denial, it's about the ability to rationalize things. I certainly can't do it, but apparently a lot of people can, and people who are smarter than I am.

True, but a deeper inspection shows a lot of hypocrisy in this area.  A lot of scientists are "doing it" to please a spouse, usually, a wife, but often times a husband as well.  As for someone like Dr. Francis Collins, he was raised in a religious home, attended church, etc., but claimed that he became an atheist.  Probably true, but then he did a residency and watched a patient of his (probably, a little child) die and then he "snapped" and "got religion".  And, now, he is making a ton of money off it, plus pleasing his spouse, and, he gets to have a plush job in Washington as one of the Evangelical's "golden boys".  But, and this is just a hypothesis, maybe Francis feels that he deserves a Nobel and Jesus helps him cope with not having one.

The reasoning of the OP could just as easily extend to all of the humanities. I doubt the OP would dismiss history, linguistics, and archeology, so easily as he does religion. Same for mathematics...the value of pi isn't an empirical finding yielding an average ratio of circular objects.

Pi is a well-defined number.  As for the arts & humanities, they tell me something; religion, on the other hand, tells me absolutely nothing.  History, linguistics and archeology (certainly!) are all regarded as being sciences by those who practice them.

(April 30, 2017 at 12:58 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 11:37 am)Mermaid Wrote: I work with some of the most talented and brilliant scientists in the world, many of whom are religious. Some of them are verrrrrry religious. I don't think it's about intelligence or denial, it's about the ability to rationalize things. I certainly can't do it, but apparently a lot of people can, and people who are smarter than I am.

True, but a deeper inspection shows a lot of hypocrisy in this area.  A lot of scientists are "doing it" to please a spouse, usually, a wife, but often times a husband as well.  As for someone like Dr. Francis Collins, he was raised in a religious home, attended church, etc., but claimed that he became an atheist.  Probably true, but then he did a residency and watched a patient of his (probably, a little child) die and then he "snapped" and "got religion".  And, now, he is making a ton of money off it, plus pleasing his spouse, and, he gets to have a plush job in Washington as one of the Evangelical's "golden boys".  But, and this is just a hypothesis, maybe Francis feels that he deserves a Nobel and Jesus helps him cope with not having one.

Oh, these people are irrevocably religious. My former boss is one of the most published and respected in his field, and he went to seminary school before he got his doctorate. He's an evangelical Christian through and through. Scary as fuck. The kind whose wife doesn't wear pants or work.

(April 30, 2017 at 5:33 pm)Mermaid Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 12:58 pm)Jehanne Wrote: True, but a deeper inspection shows a lot of hypocrisy in this area.  A lot of scientists are "doing it" to please a spouse, usually, a wife, but often times a husband as well.  As for someone like Dr. Francis Collins, he was raised in a religious home, attended church, etc., but claimed that he became an atheist.  Probably true, but then he did a residency and watched a patient of his (probably, a little child) die and then he "snapped" and "got religion".  And, now, he is making a ton of money off it, plus pleasing his spouse, and, he gets to have a plush job in Washington as one of the Evangelical's "golden boys".  But, and this is just a hypothesis, maybe Francis feels that he deserves a Nobel and Jesus helps him cope with not having one.

Oh, these people are irrevocably religious. My former boss is one of the most published and respected in his field, and he went to seminary school before he got his doctorate. He's an evangelical Christian through and through. Scary as fuck. The kind whose wife doesn't wear pants or work.

Don't underestimate the sexual and/or control aspects of his relationship to and with his wife.  He may find her to be sexually attractive, the modest and feminine "skirts only" even more so!  (It's a turn-on for some men, believe me; and, what better way to keep one's wife in dresses and/or skirts all day than getting her to believe that it is "God's will".)  And, then, there's the control aspect; after all, not many women want to be stay-at-home moms these days, barefoot, pregnant and in a peasant skirt all day!  One need only look at the huge, huge decline in the number of women religious before and after the Second Vatican Council.  A century ago it was quite common for a young lady to take a vow of celibacy and work at the local Catholic school and/or hospital for menial wages, at best.  Today, very, very few women want that for themselves!  Ditto for the skirt-wearing, submissive Evangelical woman of today's World.

And, your boss/professor may have some hidden skeletons in his closet.  Individuals who have experienced huge personal losses often cannot (understandably) cope with it all, and embracing the religion of one's birth and/or family helps everyone cope.  Doesn't change the fact, of course, that none of it is true, but it does make people feel better; that is a scientific fact!

(April 29, 2017 at 5:39 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I do believe there is evidence.... do you think the things testified to in the Bible if true, would falsify atheism?  


This kind of reminds me of a story I heard the one time. .  An atheist was talking to a preacher, and said that he would believe in God, if this chair, suddenly flew through the air, smashed against the wall, and spelled out "God". Just then the chair did exactly as he described. Astounded, the atheist went to tell a fellow atheist what they had seen.  As they where telling the story, a chair suddenly flew up, and smashed against the wall, doing the same thing again.  With much excitement, the two went to a third atheist; as they where telling of what occurred, the same thing happened again.  However the third atheist wasn't impressed, and said, that's just what chairs do!

If...if...

What was the point of this stupid story?

The former boss I posted about in this thread just posted this on Facebook:


http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/...s+Teacher/

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I should reiterate that this guy is world renowned in my particular field. When he talks, scientists listen. And then he posts this.

Science and faith conflict, yeah, but consider how often faiths conflict with each other regarding their various strictures, edicts, interpretations, pronouncements, rules and commandments and even how in a given faith there can be conflicts between church practices and their supposed 'inviolate' scriptures.

In science discrepancies are opportunities for expanding the purview of theoretical and experimental work, in 'faith' discrepancies generate schisms.