(July 23, 2011 at 1:09 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: What i want is a constructive intellectual debate and get your opinions on things and then respond with a rebuttal.

And I just explained why you don't deserve one.

(July 23, 2011 at 1:08 am)theVOID Wrote:

(July 23, 2011 at 12:47 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote:

Atheism: The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

Makes perfect since.

Hahaha!

It's more like;

We don't know how the universe got here or everything that's within it but we do know a fair bit; We know space has been expanding exponentially for a long time, we know how suns and planets and galaxies and atoms and chemicals and many other things formed more or less, we know how biological life can reproduce and produces mutations, we know that all life on this planet shares a genetic link but there is still a lot we don't know, however, we are neither stupid nor arrogant enough to conclude that there is a cosmic wizard out there somewhere who just willed it into existence - We are okay with not knowing.

Kudos to you sir. You discussed the post unlike the others. Also Kudos on admitting that we dont know all yet and not being like many other atheist I'm sure to get that believe there is solid evidence that makes Atheism a fact of some kind.

It’s spelt SENSE, not since, SENSE. Put down that Bible for five minutes and get yourself a dictionary.

(July 23, 2011 at 12:47 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote:

Atheism: The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

Makes perfect since.

Put down that Bible for five minutes and get yourself a dictionary. Go google or wiki "Atheism". At least go get a fucking clue. I'm getting really tired of this inane bullshit.

I don't really know what to say about your question but I'd like to ask you one. My brother is a bible guy too and I know it appalls him as well to imagine that everything just was and then evolved to become what we see today. Like you, I take it, he thinks everything really needs to be explained or else we really are living in a magical world where things pop into existence and transforms with no apparent rhyme or reason and yet comes together in such a purposeful, seemingly well-designed way. How's that going to happen without a designer/maker/creator/call-it-what-you-will?

But how is imagining a magical being who pulls everything out of nothing and then arranges carefully so that it will continue in static perfection forever really any better? If it is indefensible to just assume that everything always existed and then transforms through internal interaction, how do believers get off assuming that there are magical beings who have always existed and then impart order to the stuff they bring into existence. Isn't it just kicking the question of origins down the road? It reminds me of some hindu explanation of the world that imagines it as existing on the back of a horse that stands on the back of an elephant that stands on the back of a turtle. When pressed to say what the turtle stands on the hindu teacher answers "it's just turtles all the way down". Doesn't god need a creator too? It's pretty convenient to say "well god was here first, everything else is his idea." How is that any better? An honest Christian would say "that's right but it is just what I choose to believe". Why are there so few honest christians?

(July 23, 2011 at 1:12 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: Kudos to you sir. You discussed the post unlike the others. Also Kudos on admitting that we dont know all yet and not being like many other atheist I'm sure to get that believe there is solid evidence that makes Atheism a fact of some kind.

I'd say 99% of the atheists here don't think there is evidence for atheism, our position is largely one of scepticism, we see no good reason to buy what you're selling and at worst it is more analogous to some crappy fantasy novel than a serious musing about the nature of existence.

And when you misrepresent the bulk of the atheists positions I wouldn't expect NOT to get flamed a bit. We get so many people here who come to troll that pretty much present the same BS view on atheism that when another one comes along most people can't be arsed taking them seriously.

(July 23, 2011 at 1:14 am)Welsh cake Wrote: It’s spelt SENSE, not since, SENSE. Put down that Bible for five minutes and get yourself a dictionary.

(July 23, 2011 at 12:47 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote:

Atheism: The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

Makes perfect since.

Put down that Bible for five minutes and get yourself a dictionary. Go google or wiki "Atheism". At least go get a fucking clue. I'm getting really tired of this inane bullshit.

I know very much about Atheism. Believe me. I'm the biggest science dork on this sorta stuff. Not saying this makes me know all about it or that i learned all stuff from this but i spend like hours a day watching the discovery channel and science channel and listen to everything on it. I'm not just spewing this stuff out my butt. I'm different than probably th other radicals that come on here. I'm not just spewing crap and then leaving. Im trying to have an intellectual debate.

(July 23, 2011 at 1:18 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: I know very much about Atheism. Believe me. I'm the biggest science dork on this sorta stuff. Not saying this makes me know all about it or that i learned all stuff from this but i spend like hours a day watching the discovery channel and science channel and listen to everything on it. I'm not just spewing this stuff out my butt. I'm different than probably th other radicals that come on here. I'm not just spewing crap and then leaving. Im trying to have an intellectual debate.

Considering you thought that quote was an accurate representation I'd say that is all bullshit.

Oh, you watched the discovery channel? how precious.

Neither of those stations have much at all to do with atheism, sure they're about science and most atheists see science as the best available tool for discovering facts about reality, but that doesn't mean that by learning something about science you have learned something about atheism.

Tell me, why should we believe you that a God exists?

(July 23, 2011 at 1:18 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: I know very much about Atheism.

You've just demonstrated that you don't.

Quote:I'm the biggest science dork on this sorta stuff.

Atheism has nothing to do with science, it makes no claims about reality, it doesn't even qualify as an "ism".

Quote:I'm not just spewing crap and then leaving.

Oh yes you are.

(July 23, 2011 at 1:18 am)whateverist Wrote: I don't really know what to say about your question but I'd like to ask you one. My brother is a bible guy too and I know it appalls him as well to imagine that everything just was and then evolved to become what we see today. Like you, I take it, he thinks everything really needs to be explained or else we really are living in a magical world where things pop into existence and transforms with no apparent rhyme or reason and yet comes together in such a purposeful, seemingly well-designed way. How's that going to happen without a designer/maker/creator/call-it-what-you-will?

But how is imagining a magical being who pulls everything out of nothing and then arranges carefully so that it will continue in static perfection forever really any better? If it is indefensible to just assume that everything always existed and then transforms through internal interaction, how do believers get off assuming that there are magical beings who have always existed and then impart order to the stuff they bring into existence. Isn't it just kicking the question of origins down the road? It reminds me of some hindu explanation of the world that imagines it as existing on the back of a horse that stands on the back of an elephant that stands on the back of a turtle. When pressed to say what the turtle stands on the hindu teacher answers "it's just turtles all the way down". Doesn't god need a creator too? It's pretty convenient to say "well god was here first, everything else is his idea." How is that any better? An honest Christian would say "that's right but it is just what I choose to believe". Why are there so few honest christians?

Because your a human and all you know is that everything in your world has some beginning. You can't comprehend that something could have no beginning nor end and just always was. God is the one who created the laws of what you see and therefore does not have to abide by them. Thats why its hard for you to comprehend God.

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(July 23, 2011 at 1:25 am)theVOID Wrote:

(July 23, 2011 at 1:18 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: I know very much about Atheism. Believe me. I'm the biggest science dork on this sorta stuff. Not saying this makes me know all about it or that i learned all stuff from this but i spend like hours a day watching the discovery channel and science channel and listen to everything on it. I'm not just spewing this stuff out my butt. I'm different than probably th other radicals that come on here. I'm not just spewing crap and then leaving. Im trying to have an intellectual debate.

Considering you thought that quote was an accurate representation I'd say that is all bullshit.

Oh, you watched the discovery channel? how precious.

Neither of those stations have much at all to do with atheism, sure they're about science and most atheists see science as the best available tool for discovering facts about reality, but that doesn't mean that by learning something about science you have learned something about atheism.

Tell me, why should we believe you that a God exists?

Science and atheism must be one otherwise what is your basis for your beliefs? What evidence do you have to support it if science is not apart of Atheism?

(July 23, 2011 at 1:27 am)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: Science and atheism must be one otherwise what is your basis for your beliefs? What evidence do you have to support it if science is not apart of Atheism?

See, you don't know anything about atheism. It is simply a lack of belief in god, which requires no evidence other than a healthy disbelief for religion. Unlike you, we are happy to say we don't have the answer to something. We don't believe we have all the answers nor does being an atheist require us to. We are content with saying we don't fully understand something. The difference is when you don't understand something, you claim it must be god, and we do not.