(June 25, 2017 at 2:05 pm)KerimF Wrote: [edit]

So I have no intention to convince anyone about anything. I know in advance that every one is right the way he sees things. In fact, I didn't meet yet a mature sane person who thinks that any of his beliefs (or disbeliefs) is wrong.

A mature sane person is one that holds their belief until such time that evidence indicates that the belief may be flawed. Then the mature sane person reassess his belief in light of the evidence and can continue to hold the belief, alter the belief or eliminate the belief.

(June 25, 2017 at 2:03 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 12:35 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Please don't make us guess what your "Will/Power" means. Your original post alluded to a supreme power or deity. Please clarify what you believe in. Or are you taking refuge in ambiguity?

I asked and was ignored. What makes you think you're better than ME???

Well Mr. Canine ., I have opposable thumbs.

(June 25, 2017 at 2:40 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 2:03 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I asked and was ignored. What makes you think you're better than ME???

Well Mr. Canine ., I have opposable thumbs.

Come here, I need to bite you.

(June 25, 2017 at 2:42 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 2:40 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Well Mr. Canine ., I have opposable thumbs.

Come here, I need to bite you.

You come up here! (While I hurl poop unto your non-tree climbing self)

(June 25, 2017 at 2:57 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 2:42 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Come here, I need to bite you.

You come up here! (While I hurl poop unto your non-tree climbing self)

That's it! I'm gonna get a head laser beam, then I'll show you. You just wait!

(June 25, 2017 at 10:57 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 10:26 am)KerimF Wrote: Do you mean I should act as a formal theist whose evidences have to found on some books, called holy, does.
I mean; how do I know the sources of your trusted evidences?

If you like talking about facts, let us try hearing the story about a fact which was witnessed by millions on earth. I am sure we will get hundreds of different, if not opposite, versions about it if we will have the opportunity to travel around the world. The reason is simple. People in different regions are usually raised to believe in different sources claimed having the truth. So I have no idea about yours (if there is any). On my side, I don't have any and I also don't need you to back up anything you may tell me because I know it has to be real and true to you in the least (assuming you are not kidding).

I could care less if you were arguing Jefferson's generic deist God. I could also care less if you were arguing that the universe itself was a God. 

Our species is far older than the written language. Our species first bad guesses ended up being earthy gods like volcano and sun gods. On top of that our planet is 4 billion years old to which we've only been around a mere fraction of that time. On top of the universe being 13.8 billion years old. On top of our galaxy having hundreds of billions of suns, on top of our universe having nearly 200 billion galaxies in it.

So call your "God" whatever you want and define it however you want, seems a ton of waste to me if humans are allegedly the center of all this.

Maybe YOU need to consider there has never been such a critter and that "God" is merely a comic book reflection of human's qualities in their desire for a fictional forever.

Tell me why you don't accept the ocean God Poseidon as the gap answer to explain the cause of hurricanes? Tell me why you don't accept Thor as a gap answer to explain the cause of lightening? 

Maybe you should consider that humans are finite and merely a temporary blip riding in giant weather pattern.

I am afraid that you have no time to read attentively all what I write on this thread.

I try discovering things (in any field that could be related to my nature) with the hope to have a better life.
In reality, knowing how to have a better life is a relative matter because it depends on one's nature in the first place. I mean what is good for someone may or may not be so to others. But rare persons, even on these days, can perceive clearly this 'Relativity' because it is much easier for them to believe in the 'Absolute'.   

Anyway, it is not a crime if someone thinks that all humans should have the same nature (structure) of his. But, in this case, this person has no choice but seeing anyone who doesn't have his same main priorities in life as having illusions at best.

Should I repeat that, along history, the various religions then politics were created by men for the same main purpose?
So talking about ruling gods (religions) or human Elite (politics) sounds much like the same to me.

By the way, do you think a free independent person could exist in this world?
If you don't, you, unlike I, are used to be a follower of a certain ruling system (obviously not a religious one since you are not a formal theist).

(June 25, 2017 at 2:03 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 12:35 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Please don't make us guess what your "Will/Power" means. Your original post alluded to a supreme power or deity. Please clarify what you believe in. Or are you taking refuge in ambiguity?

I asked and was ignored. What makes you think you're better than ME???

---

(June 25, 2017 at 3:54 pm)KerimF Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 10:57 am)Brian37 Wrote: I could care less if you were arguing Jefferson's generic deist God. I could also care less if you were arguing that the universe itself was a God. 

Our species is far older than the written language. Our species first bad guesses ended up being earthy gods like volcano and sun gods. On top of that our planet is 4 billion years old to which we've only been around a mere fraction of that time. On top of the universe being 13.8 billion years old. On top of our galaxy having hundreds of billions of suns, on top of our universe having nearly 200 billion galaxies in it.

So call your "God" whatever you want and define it however you want, seems a ton of waste to me if humans are allegedly the center of all this.

Maybe YOU need to consider there has never been such a critter and that "God" is merely a comic book reflection of human's qualities in their desire for a fictional forever.

Tell me why you don't accept the ocean God Poseidon as the gap answer to explain the cause of hurricanes? Tell me why you don't accept Thor as a gap answer to explain the cause of lightening? 

Maybe you should consider that humans are finite and merely a temporary blip riding in giant weather pattern.

I am afraid that you have no time to read attentively all what I write on this thread.

I try discovering things (in any field that could be related to my nature) with the hope to have a better life.
In reality, knowing how to have a better life is a relative matter because it depends on one's nature in the first place. I mean what is good for someone may or may not be so to others. But rare persons, even on these days, can perceive clearly this 'Relativity' because it is much easier for them to believe in the 'Absolute'.   

Anyway, it is not a crime if someone thinks that all humans should have the same nature (structure) of his. But, in this case, this person has no choice but seeing anyone who doesn't have his same main priorities in life as having illusions at best.

Should I repeat that, along history, the various religions then politics were created by men for the same main purpose?
So talking about ruling gods (religions) or human Elite (politics) sounds much like the same to me.

By the way, do you think a free independent person could exist in this world?
If you don't, you, unlike I, are used to be a follower of a certain ruling system (obviously not a religious one since you are not a formal theist).

I do have time, but how much of an naked assertion apology does one have to read before you know it is still ultimately a naked assertion?

Got a peer reviewed journal, formula? No, then all you have is a personal like. So do Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists, get in line take a number.

(June 25, 2017 at 11:31 am)Minimalist Wrote: The first thing you need to learn is what the word "object" means.

Quote:ob·ject
noun
noun: object; plural noun: objects
ˈäbjekt/
1.
a material thing that can be seen and touched.

You are right.
It happens I am not good in any language. English is my 3rd language after French and Arabic.

But I also met people who even worship certain words and sentences known as being inspired by their god.

By the way, I used focusing on ideas instead of words. A word could be interpreted in many ways (even if it is written on a so-called 'holy' book) while an idea is either understood/perceived or not.

(June 25, 2017 at 4:17 pm)KerimF Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 11:31 am)Minimalist Wrote: The first thing you need to learn is what the word "object" means.

You are right.
It happens I am not good in any language. English is my 3rd language after French and Arabic.

But I also met people who even worship certain words and sentences known as being inspired by their god.

By the way, I used focusing on ideas instead of words. A word could be interpreted in many ways (even if it is written on a so-called 'holy' book) while an idea is either understood/perceived or not.

Ideas and words, neither mean shit to science in the context of scientific method if they are not accurate and distinct. 

The world IS interpreted best by scientific method, not fake philosophy, not naked assertions, not woo. That is not advocating the end of religion or even opinions. It merely means if you want to know what evidence and knowledge are there is only one universal way to determine that.

Anything outside scientific method is a like, an opinion. Until something is repeatedly tested and falsified and repeatedly independently peer reviewed, and confirmed by that independent peer review, those claims remain as they should, as mere opinion. 

The good thing about scientific method, for the entire world, is that it is not intended to care about personal bias.

(June 25, 2017 at 11:34 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 11:13 am)KerimF Wrote: Many persons told me they cannot think about something that cannot be seen and/or heard (this is why, they are ready to believe, like some kids do, anything they may see on their electrical monitors, claimed being real and true). My simple answer to them was: I didn't mind being very interested in Math, though it has many objects that I can't see, hear, smell, taste and/or touch...    

So it wasn't a prerequisite to me that I should see, hear, smell, taste and/or touch the Will/Power which is behind my existence to start discovering it and get from it the knowledge that could be useful to 'my' being (obviously not to my flesh since the instructions related to it are already embedded in its living cells; known as instincts and human rights for a few).

By the way, as I mentioned earlier, all living things are not supposed to search the end purpose of their existence which is simply to serve the continuity of the world; the way that each species is supposed to do (the word 'serve' here may be about building and destroying as well).

Anyway, I spent too many years to have an adequate knowledge that helped me be a professional designer. So it took me even more years to discover the logical answers to all important questions related to my being and the world (the realm which is defined and limited by time/space) in which I was brought.
If I am not wrong, in case you are old enough you also got all important answers that you were looking for and are related to your being, in the least.

Perhaps Erik Erikson's theory of Ego Integrity vs. Despair is at work here. Are you seeking validation of your wisdom or are you going to present your hard earned knowledge and allow us to determine its validity for our lives?

Please don't tell me you needed validation from some others that you are a wise person. But this may happen if someone likes to please some persons whom he cares of.

About going on, I guess I have to explore first... Erik Erikson's theory of Ego Integrity vs. Despair... and see if it is at work here or not.