I use Sir and Ma'am often in my work as a nurse. Especially with the elderly. At least at first. Once someone tells me to call them by a different term I do. I am on first name basis with many of my clients. Or at least Mr. or Ms. ( I call women Ms. all the time and no one has been offended.)
I also call Dr.'s Sir or Ma'am. That is not only out of respect for their authority but also in an attempt to separate my authority from theirs. Florence Nightingale established modern nursing as an adversarial role to medical doctors. We are patient advocates not Dr. advocates. 99% of Dr.s are on the same side as the patient and we nurses do not have to push our weight around.  
The same holds true for cops. I call them Sir or Ma'am to maintain a formal distance at the same time respecting their authority and the risk they take. But when they pull me over , we are not friends. Anything I say will be used against me. Best to keep it concise and polite.

Quote:Politeness is not a societal rule it's just good ol' manners to treat people with respect and others need to learn that we in the south are raised to respect others.

Well..... sometimes.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pair...rs-n726421

Quote:A man and a woman were sentenced Monday to 13 and six years in prison, respectively, for joining a group of Confederate flag supporters who in 2015 drove around a small Georgia community threatening people, including a gathering of African-Americans celebrating a young boy's birthday.

(June 27, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Politeness is not a societal rule it's just good ol' manners to treat people with respect and others need to learn that we in the south are raised to respect others.

Well..... sometimes.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pair...rs-n726421

Quote:A man and a woman were sentenced Monday to 13 and six years in prison, respectively, for joining a group of Confederate flag supporters who in 2015 drove around a small Georgia community threatening people, including a gathering of African-Americans celebrating a young boy's birthday.

Using diminutives is a southern habit and I find it quite rude. Calling customers, patients, etc "Honey Baby" or "Sweetie Pie' is insulting. These are terms reserved for very small children. Just because I bought a hamburger off of you does not make me your child. Southern respect , my ass!

(June 27, 2017 at 7:15 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(June 27, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Well..... sometimes.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pair...rs-n726421

Using diminutives is a southern habit and I find it quite rude. Calling customers, patients, etc "Honey Baby" or "Sweetie Pie' is insulting. These are terms reserved for very small children. Just because I bought a hamburger off of you does not make me your child. Southern respect , my ass!

 We wouldn't expect an yankee to understand since they suck on rudeness from birth.

(June 27, 2017 at 1:41 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I remember a departmental secretary many years ago I always addressed as Ms. Tracy and I even tried to put a southern twang on it a bit.  I could tell she liked it, and since most of the other dwellers of cubeville openly thought she was crazy as a bed bug (she was) it helped me to get my items faster and I'd like to think with a little better results.

Unlike a later replacement . .

Company policy of course forbid me calling that one 'bitch' and I didn't, and I didn't ever even when she was out of ear shot.  What I found galling however, was that virtually everyone else did refer to her as 'bitch' (or far worse) when she was out of ear shot.  And she wasn't above fucking up a document if she got wind of any disgruntlement towards her in cubeville.

BTW, I've googled many folks as of late, and I find something about most everyone I look for.  Except her.  She has apparently left this mortal coil without a trace.

maybe Satan assimilated her from the timeline for a special project ?

How about that.Moved out of state shortly after retirement (I knew about retiring, not moving away) and that's why I never found anything

Obit was printed in town I lived in, that's how I found her

Outlived husband.  Never ever mentioned him, no pictures at work, no one suspected she was ever married*

 Had kids!  Never spoke of them, no pictures at work, no one suspected

 "Guest book" feature at funeral home site had NO names from anyone in our department at the time of her retirement.  No particular surprise there.

 I'm inferring from positive comments from out of state friends her bitterness might have been entirely confined to place of employment.  Additionally, since her career was entirely separate from her private life, safe bet her private life was untouched by her career too.

 LOL, she was WAY older than she looked (and good for her).  Still, that works both ways, her bitterness stemmed from being kicked out of her executive secretarial position when she became a little 'long in the tooth', but if she was older than she looked, her time in the executive suite was actually longer than she might have reasonably expected otherwise.  And that's where her bitterness with us arose.  She felt she should have still been a secretary at the executive level, and she took out being stuck with us on us.  Bitch**.  Take it up with the executives who hired you when you were younger and YOU displaced an older secretary of that era, condemning her to just what happened to you later.


*I think I can infer a DIVORCE from that. Whadda ya think ??


**Well, that's closure for me, and everyone else she was nasty to.  You know, that was a big place, thousands of employees.  I'm sure I encountered several unpleasant, even vile, people my time there.  Why does this one stick out?  It was the bitterness and the relentless infliction of it on everyone in my area, UNDESERVEDLY.  We had nothing to do with her being bounced from the executive level.  I recall her 'turning up' after a departmental reorganization that corresponded to my getting out of my "sobriety motel" and getting an actual apartment to live in, so I put up with her hostility for over 5 years.  The  6 FSEs that came with her in the reorg had, IIRC, about 2 more years of her than I did.  I recall a discussion with my supervisor about dropping a conduct report on her, but that would have been in the time frame when  the RDG test was winding down, and she retired shortly thereafter.  And with that timing, there wouldn't have been much impetus to drop a conduct report on her.  And I was thrown a bone, I could use a secretary in an adjoining department.  Hawthorne Effect there, while relentlessly pleasant, the other sec had spare time up the wazoo because she had limited skills.  

LOL, office politics !!!

(June 27, 2017 at 5:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(June 27, 2017 at 6:03 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That's pretty much where I am. Males older than myself are 'sir' or'mister'.  Males my age or younger are generally 'mate'. 'Ma'am' I reserve for female magistrates or the Queen.  Woman I don't know I tend to address as 'miss' or (if they're older) 'dear'.

Boru

Hard for me to find males older than myself.  It's a narrow window.

I understand, sir. ?

Boru

When I worked as a cashier in high school I'd call customers mam and sir sometimes. Never became a habit for me. But then I was raised outside the genteel south so, you know, rude.

When the DOT guy pulled me over, I bet I called him 'sir' about 25 times, LOL !!

(June 27, 2017 at 6:13 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 27, 2017 at 1:25 pm)mlmooney89 Wrote: So being southern to the bone I can't handle when people say "don't call me sir or ma'am because I'm not old" I want to scream at them it isn't about age it's about respect. I used to give the same respect to children that they gave me.
"Mrs Mandy can I play at this station now?"
"Did you clean up your last station?"
"Yes ma'am."
"Then yes sir/ma'am you may."

I never blinked an eye at calling children ma'am and sir nor did the children at being called that because in the south it is part of our culture and I think what makes our charm. Manners mean so much to me and I do get offended if I ask someone a question and they say "yeah" instead of 'yes ma'am" At my work I get called ma'am all day by all ages. I know it's just a matter of different cultures but I can't stand the yankee manners and find them very rude. One of my coworkers is from New York and the rest of us have to remember that she wasn't raised with our manners and she doesn't mean anything when she speaks the way she does.

With that said I do understand that with people being more comfortable being themselves some don't identify as one gender or another and that is fine but it makes southern manners difficult. I know this is my problem not theirs and will probably be the start of a slow death of ma'am and sir which makes me very sad but I understand people matter more than society rules. As for now if I can obviously determine the gender I will still use ma'am/sir. If I can't I will rephrase to try and keep good manners while not labeling.

Politeness is not a societal rule it's just good ol' manners to treat people with respect and others need to learn that we in the south are raised to respect others. I always hold the door open for ladies even when they say that I shouldn't treat them that way, yeah I've had that said to me, some perceived societal rules just suck.

GC

I hold the door open for everybody, granted the men usually take it from me but I still try. I think manners and society's rule are one in the same concept. Society dictates what good manners are which is why different cultures think different kinds of manners are appropriate. I get what you are saying though. I just don't want to put my idea of manners above letting someone be who they are. (ie I don't want to force ma'am on someone that doesn't identify as a female all the time and if my idea of manners needs to be tweaked for that I accept it)

(June 27, 2017 at 6:13 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 27, 2017 at 1:25 pm)mlmooney89 Wrote:

---

So being southern to the bone I can't handle when people say "don't call me sir or ma'am because I'm not old" I want to scream at them it isn't about age it's about respect. I used to give the same respect to children that they gave me.
"Mrs Mandy can I play at this station now?"
"Did you clean up your last station?"
"Yes ma'am."
"Then yes sir/ma'am you may."

I never blinked an eye at calling children ma'am and sir nor did the children at being called that because in the south it is part of our culture and I think what makes our charm. Manners mean so much to me and I do get offended if I ask someone a question and they say "yeah" instead of 'yes ma'am" At my work I get called ma'am all day by all ages. I know it's just a matter of different cultures but I can't stand the yankee manners and find them very rude. One of my coworkers is from New York and the rest of us have to remember that she wasn't raised with our manners and she doesn't mean anything when she speaks the way she does.

With that said I do understand that with people being more comfortable being themselves some don't identify as one gender or another and that is fine but it makes southern manners difficult. I know this is my problem not theirs and will probably be the start of a slow death of ma'am and sir which makes me very sad but I understand people matter more than society rules. As for now if I can obviously determine the gender I will still use ma'am/sir. If I can't I will rephrase to try and keep good manners while not labeling.

---

Politeness is not a societal rule it's just good ol' manners to treat people with respect and others need to learn that we in the south are raised to respect others. I always hold the door open for ladies even when they say that I shouldn't treat them that way, yeah I've had that said to me, some perceived societal rules just suck.

GC

I have run into two different mindsets on the holding door action.  Obviously, women are quite capable of opening doors by themselves.  Holding a door open for anyone with arms full, or hanging on to young ones, is simple kindness on the part of anyone of any gender.  Some guys just hold doors open, you can tell they've just been trained to do so, I always thank them.  Then there are the OTHER guys.  The ones who see a pretty woman approaching from yards away, and he chooses the door that HE decides she will enter.  I was with a friend only a week or so ago, there were (6?) possible doors.  He grabs one, stares at her as she walks for (over a minute) to get to his location.  He makes a mock bow with a cheesy smirk as she enters.  She did NOT thank him.  He followed her into the store, and snarled "You're WELCOME, BITCH!"  Kathleen is a formidable Irish female.  She turned around and said, very quietly, "I did not ask you to hold that door.  I did not need for you to hold that door.  In retrospect, I clearly should have chosen another door. You did that for your own personal gratification, so there is no need for me to thank you."  He wasn't doing it out of kindness or consideration, it was an cry for attention and an attempt to control.  We need to take this holding doors and chairs and all of that nonsense out of expected MALE behaviors and just make helping everyone the norm.