(August 6, 2017 at 12:53 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

(August 6, 2017 at 12:29 am)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: You don't get it either. We've got the evidence, we don't need to make shit up and call it an argument.

Preach it

He does not get it and likely never will .

Yup. The entire other thread dedicated to beating up straw men, lying about the nature of his inquiry, cowardly refusals to acknowledge the other side's irrefutable proof that his idea is completely wrong or attempt to prove his own point, not only makes his own position look all the weaker, but also makes the prospect of becoming a theist, if that's what it does for one's mental state and temperament, very off-putting. Every part of this marketing strategy is a huge fuck-up.

(August 6, 2017 at 1:43 am)Astonished Wrote: ... The entire other thread ... makes the prospect of becoming a theist, if that's what it does for one's mental state and temperament, very off-putting. Every part of this marketing strategy is a huge fuck-up.

I'd say that this is an accurate observation.  I find apologetics in general rather disturbing at both a gut level and an intellectual level.  Something that requires so much interpretation, so much philosophical Twister and so many excuses is IMO almost certainly hogwash from the get-go.  The idea of being sucked into that culture and that mindset is utterly terrifying.

(August 6, 2017 at 2:13 am)Astreja Wrote:

(August 6, 2017 at 1:43 am)Astonished Wrote: ... The entire other thread ... makes the prospect of becoming a theist, if that's what it does for one's mental state and temperament, very off-putting. Every part of this marketing strategy is a huge fuck-up.

I'd say that this is an accurate observation.  I find apologetics in general rather disturbing at both a gut level and an intellectual level.  Something that requires so much interpretation, so much philosophical Twister and so many excuses is IMO almost certainly hogwash from the get-go.  The idea of being sucked into that culture and that mindset is utterly terrifying.

Couldn't have said it better, I didn't add in the actual fear of falling into that, I'm usually too angry with them to really go into that. But I've pretty much gotten all that out in my childhood, so all fear of that shit is basically replaced with anger instead. At least that can be channeled into something positive if done right, just haven't really completely figured that bit out.

(August 5, 2017 at 12:32 am)Tizheruk Wrote: The ontological argument has been debunk six ways from sunday . God is not in anyway necessary as for logic no god is needed for it nor to use it .

The problem with logic is that you need a premise.  Religitards always start with the premise that their particular magical sky-daddy is real and thus they are pretty much fucked flat from the beginning.

(August 6, 2017 at 12:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(August 5, 2017 at 12:32 am)Tizheruk Wrote: The ontological argument has been debunk six ways from sunday . God is not in anyway necessary as for logic no god is needed for it nor to use it .

The problem with logic is that you need a premise.  Religitards always start with the premise that their particular magical sky-daddy is real and thus they are pretty much fucked flat from the beginning.

Funny enough in some ways logic is a problem for theism

And nope god done it . Can't be held even provisionally . I don't know is superior . And no one insists science will eventually sort it out nor insists that a natural cause is true. It's more likely  considering the track record . But not needed to be true. This is a straw man invented by theists to pretend rational people act the way they do.

(August 4, 2017 at 4:54 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(August 4, 2017 at 4:19 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Neo came to us as some sort of flaky swedenborgian and has somehow transformed into a putatively fundamental catholic....

Are you saying that it is acceptable to gradually (or suddenly) loose one's faith but unacceptable to grow in it?

If you call burying your head deeper in the sand as unacceptable, then, yes.

---

(August 4, 2017 at 10:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(August 4, 2017 at 7:44 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: Fixed that for you.

Chad, what you (and most of the other faithers who come here) just don't get is that we don't give a shit about your religious arguments. If we're arguing them at all, for the most part it's out of boredom, wanting to play whack-a-mole, whatever... Most of of come from religious households, grew up in religious communities and quite likely still live in religious communities. The arguments and evidence were unconvincing then and remain unconvincing now, especially considering they haven't changed.

Then don't blame us if  boredom, apathy, or whatever you want to call that makes many use bad and lazy arguements, lead to a poor conclusions about your intelligence. 

Constantly declaring how smart one is, while avoiding discussion or using ad arguments doesn't help much either. I go by what I see.

Well, if believers didn't use bad and lazy argument that lead to poor conclusions, they probably wouldn't be here.

---

(August 4, 2017 at 10:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(August 4, 2017 at 7:44 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: Fixed that for you.

Chad, what you (and most of the other faithers who come here) just don't get is that we don't give a shit about your religious arguments. If we're arguing them at all, for the most part it's out of boredom, wanting to play whack-a-mole, whatever... Most of of come from religious households, grew up in religious communities and quite likely still live in religious communities. The arguments and evidence were unconvincing then and remain unconvincing now, especially considering they haven't changed.

Then don't blame us if  boredom, apathy, or whatever you want to call that makes many use bad and lazy arguements, lead to a poor conclusions about your intelligence. 

Constantly declaring how smart one is, while avoiding discussion or using ad arguments doesn't help much either. I go by what I see.

Where has someone bragged about how smart they were?

(August 7, 2017 at 9:27 am)Harry Nevis Wrote:

(August 4, 2017 at 4:54 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Are you saying that it is acceptable to gradually (or suddenly) loose one's faith but unacceptable to grow in it?

If you call burying your head deeper in the sand as unacceptable, then, yes.

---

(August 4, 2017 at 10:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Then don't blame us if  boredom, apathy, or whatever you want to call that makes many use bad and lazy arguements, lead to a poor conclusions about your intelligence. 

Constantly declaring how smart one is, while avoiding discussion or using ad arguments doesn't help much either. I go by what I see.

Well, if believers didn't use bad and lazy argument that lead to poor conclusions, they probably wouldn't be here.

---

(August 4, 2017 at 10:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Then don't blame us if  boredom, apathy, or whatever you want to call that makes many use bad and lazy arguements, lead to a poor conclusions about your intelligence. 

Constantly declaring how smart one is, while avoiding discussion or using ad arguments doesn't help much either. I go by what I see.

Where has someone bragged about how smart they were?

He seems to think refutation of mythical claims is bragging about being smart. After all, we're refuting all that solid eye witness testimony.

I cannot do it for two weeks because on my work schedule but if anyone wants to formally debate the 5 ways later we can plan to do so at a future date and work out the terms of the debate now. That will give you the opportunity to do your research. You might want to take a look at my last debate in which the previous debater was not able to follow through on his commitment. My arguments would be essentially the same, so that will also give you another advantage. Surely if the 5 Ways have been so thoroughly debunked as skeptics claim it shouldn't be too hard to rise to the challenge.

I would love to see that.