(August 18, 2017 at 10:26 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 10:24 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: You know, if the slaves were not freed in 1865, I bet there would be no KKK, and no Nazi March in Charlottesville today either.

The root of the the evil of KKK is the freeing of slaves.

I'd rather blame the Bible.

Being an atheist and all that . . . .

I have said this about all religions in our collective species history.

OUR SPECIES was around long before any written religion or city state or nation. I do not blame the bible or Koran or OT or Buddha's writings or Vedas. I do blame my fellow humans for thinking our species morality is handed down to us from a divine place. And that is why religion is so divisive. Because people do think holy writings have magic powers.

If the Christian can accept that the Koran has no magic powers, but does cause divisions between Sunnis and Shiites, then one should accept that while liberal theists have the empathy, the good side of our species, they need to accept that it is still the same book American Neo Nazis and KKK members quote to justify white nationalism, regardless of you wishing they would not do that. For the same reason Malala, as much as the world loves her, and I admire her too, also needs to understand regardless of not wanting other Muslims to behave like Bin Laden, it is still the same holy book they both use to come to different conclusions.

So I only blame holy books in the context that humans mistake them as being the source of our species morality. I still value my species POTENTIAL for compassion and non violence. I simply disagree where that compassion and empathy is coming from.

You cant keep all history or there wouldn't be room for new stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5Oz9b84jM

Does Robert E. Lee's opinion count at all in any of this nazi/racist bullshit spectacle?

http://www2.vcdh.virginia.edu/saxon/serv....09.03.xml

Quote:Dear Sir--Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until to-day your letter of the 26th ult., inclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battle-field Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies on the field. My engagements will not permit me to be present. I believe if there, I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Very respectfully,
Your obedient servant,
R. E. Lee.

Lee had a shitload more class than our modern nazi fuckheads.

(August 18, 2017 at 12:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Does Robert E. Lee's opinion count at all in any of this nazi/racist bullshit spectacle?

http://www2.vcdh.virginia.edu/saxon/serv....09.03.xml

Quote:Dear Sir--Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until to-day your letter of the 26th ult., inclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battle-field Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies on the field. My engagements will not permit me to be present. I believe if there, I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Very respectfully,
Your obedient servant,
R. E. Lee.

Lee had a shitload more class than our modern nazi fuckheads.

Unfortunately the right will still take that as, "Look he admitted his flaws so that is a reason to keep the statues up>"

UM NO, just the opposite. You wont find Germany or Japan keeping their history of fascist symbols up.

I think the right forgets that forgiving does not equal condoning. The statues put up after the war were not done to teach history, they were put up to glorify the side that wanted to keep a horrible institution, and even Lee, like Germany and Japan admitted the healing begins when you admit you were wrong.

Slavery was that "Mark of civil strife". 

I graduated from a High School named after Lee, I want that named changed too. I would still want the Civil War taught in history classes but not glorified in those history classes.

Honestly, I think I can see both sides. I guess it just depends on which way you look at it.

To many southerners, the civil war wasn't about slavery. They see it as independence from the government up north, much like the revolutionary war was about independence from Britain. As someone else here said, many of the confederate soldiers did not themselves own slaves and there were even blacks who fought. Slavery was not the reason these people fought. If there is a southerner telling me that this is how he feels about it, I can't be like "Nope, no you don't. You just want to defend slavery." (Unless you are a supremacist, in which case you've already made it quite clear how you feel about non whites. But for the average decent person who is a southerner, if they tell me their view of the confederate army has nothing to do with slavery or racism, I can't tell them they are wrong.)

With that being said, I also see why/how a a black person or anyone else who sees the civil war as being all about slavery would be offended and would want those statues down for that reason. Because to them, the confederate soldiers do represent slavery and racism, since that is one of the differences between the north and south at the time. And those statues feel, to them, like a stand against their human dignity. That makes sense as well.

I think it is important to understand where each person is coming from before we mass label everyone in the former group racist and everyone in the latter group snow flakes.

(August 18, 2017 at 12:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Lee had a shitload more class than our modern nazi fuckheads.

And when he reincarnated as a Dodge Charger, he could straighten the curves, flatten the hills and leap across canyons in a single bound.

Quote:I think it is important to understand where each person is coming from before we mass label everyone in the former group racist and everyone in the latter group snow flakes.

That's surprisingly easy to do, C/L.

(August 18, 2017 at 12:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Honestly, I think I can see both sides. I guess it just depends on which way you look at it.

To many southerners, the civil war wasn't about slavery. They see it as independence from the government up north, much like the revolutionary war was about independence from Britain. As someone else here said, many of the confederate soldiers did not themselves own slaves and there were even blacks who fought. Slavery was not the reason these people fought. If there is a southerner telling me that this is how he feels about it, I can't be like "Nope, no you don't. You just want to defend slavery." (Unless you are a supremacist, in which case you've already made it quite clear how you feel about non whites. But for the average decent person who is a southerner, if they tell me their view of the confederate army has nothing to do with slavery or racism, I can't tell them they are wrong.)

With that being said, I also see why/how a a black person or anyone else who sees the civil war as being all about slavery would be offended and would want those statues down for that reason. Because to them, the confederate soldiers do represent slavery and racism, since that is one of the differences between the north and south at the time. And those statues feel, to them, like a stand against their human dignity. That makes sense as well.

I think it is important to understand where each person is coming from before we mass label everyone in the former group racist and everyone in the latter group snow flakes.

CL seriously, who cares? 

Nazis are still nothing to glorify nor was slavery. Whatever empathy you think you have does not negate the evil of those ideologies. Our Neo Nazis support the attack on western values. White nationalism is not a reflection of western pluralism. The KKK ALSO is not a reflection of pluralism. 

I cannot see both sides. PERIOD. 

The only place Nazis and Slavery have any place in is a museum of what not to do to your fellow human being.

(August 18, 2017 at 12:16 pm)Cyberman Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 12:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Lee had a shitload more class than our modern nazi fuckheads.

And when he reincarnated as a Dodge Charger, he could straighten the curves, flatten the hills and leap across canyons in a single bound.

You're forgetting they had to use up hundreds of 1969 Dodge Chargers for the show (accordIng to the actor who played Cooter, 325 Chargers were used up in the making of the show, an average of more than 2 PER EPISODE, and it probably would have been higher if they didn't resort to relying on stock footage near the end of the series' run) he wouldn't have lasted very long.

No no no, that's not true - why would you lie?!? Bo and Diddly really really did do the stunts and the car was the bestest and fastestest in the whole world I saw them with all my own eye holes... mommy make him stop...

Stop purging history, you Alf Quaeda you!