(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Are yall trying to convince me to say that everyone in America who is against the removal of those statues is a racist, one way or the other? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to label all these people as racists for this reason. It's not really how I roll.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 4:00 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: And yet here you are, suggesting that we ought to look at matters from their perspective.

From the Nazi's perspective? No, I never said that.

Sure you did, right here, complete with an explicit reference to racism:

(August 18, 2017 at 3:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But you can point something out to a person and they can still not agree with you. Maybe they just genuinely don't agree that their view of history is incorrect and objectively racist.

That reads plain as day to me.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The Nazi's have made their perspective quite clear already, and it is a racist one. That's their whole premise.

You don't say.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Honestly, I'm not even sure I fully understand what we are arguing about.

Are yall trying to convince me to say that everyone in America who is against the removal of those statues is a racist, one way or the other? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to label all these people as racists for this reason. It's not really how I roll.

I am saying that the reasons I have been given for their continued display, every last one of them, has been rooted in a racist revision of history.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:08 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Are yall trying to convince me to say that everyone in America who is against the removal of those statues is a racist, one way or the other? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to label all these people as racists for this reason. It's not really how I roll.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: From the Nazi's perspective? No, I never said that.

Sure you did, right here, complete with an explicit reference to racism:

(August 18, 2017 at 3:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But you can point something out to a person and they can still not agree with you. Maybe they just genuinely don't agree that their view of history is incorrect and objectively racist.

That reads plain as day to me.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The Nazi's have made their perspective quite clear already, and it is a racist one. That's their whole premise.

You don't say.

In reference to the bolded: 

Right, but I've repeatedly stated that the nazis/supremacists don't fall under this category, since they have already made it clear that they are racist.

As for the strawman, I honestly was not trying to do that. I feel like we are arguing because I refuse to call all these other people racist, but that's why I asked, so correct me if I'm wrong.

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(August 18, 2017 at 4:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Honestly, I'm not even sure I fully understand what we are arguing about.

Are yall trying to convince me to say that everyone in America who is against the removal of those statues is a racist, one way or the other? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to label all these people as racists for this reason. It's not really how I roll.

I am saying that the reasons I have been given for their continued display, every last one of them, has been rooted in a racist revision of history.

That's fair enough. But what are you arguing about with me?

(August 18, 2017 at 3:48 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 3:42 pm)Brian37 Wrote: HOLY FUCK AND WHO CARES....... One side was trying to end slavery and the other was trying to keep slavery, regardless of personal opinion.

I am seriously having a hard time understanding why it is so hard to simply admit, "SLAVERY WAS BAD"

If it is, then the monuments to those who fought to kept it need to be taken out of the context of being glorified as heros. And relegated to museums and history books without the context of glorifying them as heros.

WHY is that so hard to understand. It should be a no brainer.

Who is not admitting slavery was bad? Besides those nazis, whom we can all agree are racist mofos, no one else here is saying slavery wasn't bad.

Glad you agree, then it should be a no brainer to relocate those monuments without the hero worship attached to them.

Otherwise you are giving those asshole bigots a voice. 

Again, and you would rightfully agree that a German today could not get away with, "Why cant we keep this statue of Rommel with a hero motif in it's honor?" AGAIN, that is how blacks feel about monuments that glorify the men who fought to keep slavery. So if you value your black friends, dont shit on them by saying it is ok, when you just agreed with me that it is not ok.

Those monuments only belong in museums of what not to do to your fellow human beings. Just like the Ann Frank house and the DC Holocaust Museum are warnings of how not to treat your fellow human beings. Just like the African American Museum in DC has artifacts of slavery. 

You "Nazis are bad."

Me, "I agree".

You, "Slavery was bad"

Me, "I agree"

You, "The KKK is bad."

Me, "I agree"

Now you already know right from wrong so do the right thing and stop justifying the hero context of which those monuments were intended when they were erected.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 4:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I am saying that the reasons I have been given for their continued display, every last one of them, has been rooted in a racist revision of history.

That's fair enough. But what are you arguing about with me?

I am arguing the idea that the people who use the arguments that have been used aren't at least acting racist.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:34 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 4:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's fair enough. But what are you arguing about with me?

I am arguing the idea that the people who use the arguments that have been used aren't at least acting racist.

To be clear, nobody is accusing CL the individual of being racist, but if she has a problem removing the hero worship context of those monuments, then unwittingly she is enabling the white nationalists she claims to rightfully dislike.

To me that is like unwittingly driving a car to a  robbery, your passenger robs the convenience store, murders the clerk, but you don't point them out or lift a finger to call the police and say, "I had no idea" or "I didn't do it".. Of course the crime will get reported, but even if you didn't do it, robber is no hero regardless.

(August 18, 2017 at 3:11 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: No this protest (hate rally ) was started by racist fucks and supported by racist fucks from start to finish . The statue was just rallying point for racist fucks . To try  legitimize there racist fuckery .

The racist denials are real

All true. This would be a different conversation if people just ignored the Nazi/KKK marchers or held a peaceful vigil. It is un-American to physically attack people because they express offensive viewpoints.

To be clear, I have 0 problem with the statues being removed. I 100% understand why someone would want them removed.

All I'm saying is that I just don't think that every person who is against the statue's removal is necessarily either a racist or "acting racist." (Which I honestly don't see how someone can act racist without being racist. Racism is a sentiment, so it requires intent, imho)

Anyway, that's basically all I'm saying.

(August 18, 2017 at 4:48 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: To be clear, I have 0 problem with the statues being removed. I 100% understand why someone would want them removed.

All I'm saying is that I just don't think that every person who is against the statue's removal is necessarily either a racist or "acting racist." (Which I honestly don't see how someone can act racist without being racist. Racism requires intent, imho)

Anyway, that's basically all I'm saying.

Every person who might object to the removal of memorials to the Nazis is necessarily a national socialist either. That doesn't mean I will thereby reserve for each of them a significant fraction of the sympathy that I might have for a descendant of Holocaust survivor who wishes to have those memorial removed.

When descendants of slaves wishes to remove statues of those who fought and killed to keep their ancestors enslaved, particularly when those who fought and killed to enslave have no other significant accomplishments meriting rememberance, those who feel kinship to fighter for slavery and wish to continue to impose upon descendants of slaves will get no sympathy from me whatsoever.

(August 18, 2017 at 2:09 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 12:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Unless you are a supremacist, in which case you've already made it quite clear how you feel about non whites.

The people who were marching to keep the statues up were self-avowed supremacists.

See for yourself:





(In case you don't know what "N.S.M." stands for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_S...ed_States))

Marchers from the night before:



These are the people marching to keep those statues up. Do you really think they value historical fidelity? After all, many of these same folk are undoubtedly Holocaust deniers.

Do you really think they give a shit about their Southern "heritage"? Many if not most of them came from all across the nation.

They do not care about history or heritage. They are marching in order to glorify the subjugation of blacks, and to defend honoring that subjugation with public reminders. They are marching trying to grow their movement. If you want to be neutral, that's your business. Me, I'll keep in mind the dictum that "all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing."

I cannot and will not be neutral in this matter. I've fought for my country before, and I will continue to do so, in order to keep these Herrenvolk away from power.

Strange how people can look at something and interpret it many different ways, huh. Some of the Southerners below were protesting to keep the Stars and Bars flying. Would you say these guys don't give a shit about their Southern heritage, or that they're racist because they support the Stars and Bars?







"The Confederate flag never called me N****r but Blacks and Liberals did."


H.K. Edgerton, former NAACP chapter president.