(August 20, 2017 at 12:50 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: To my knowledge, only one statue was torn down by a mob. And the people who tore the statue down turned themselves in the very next day, with the line of people going around the block. The rest of the statues have been removed by various city and town governments.

And, yeah... I'm generally a non-violent person, but when it comes to Nazis you punch them in the fucking throat.

Has any supremacist at all even come out to say they denounce the car murderer?

(August 20, 2017 at 12:41 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 20, 2017 at 12:18 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: It is one thing to call a policy position racist, it is another thing to demonstrate that it is so. I think you do a lot of the former and very little of the later. If people want to erect and dismantle monuments via a legal democratic process then so be it. But mobs rioting and pulling down statues is un-American. If like-minded people want to assemble to carry signs and torches and chant about anything at all, including racial supremacy or armed resistance, they have that right. It is called free speech and freedom of assembly. To physically assault people exercising their civil and human rights is un-American. I would go so far as to say that given the nature of their extremely vile ideology they had it coming, but that still doesn't make it any less a violation of their rights to freedom of assembly and freedom of speech.

If mobs had been rioting to pull down those statues there wouldn;t be so many of them standing, sweetheart.  Mobs rioting to tear shit down after nazis killed one of their own, on the other hand, is -very- american.  

You;re here bullshitting us about free speech and people assualting each other...remind me who ran over whom, again?  In any case, you and your alt right pals aren;t arguing for free speech, what you want is -consequence- free speech.  There is no such right.  Further, the cops aren't shutting you down, and when the conseqwunces of you freely speaking your racist minds leads to violence they protect you.....so there's no point in bitching about your right to free speech.  You obviously have it.  If you say racist shit, the consequence is being called a racist.  If you support racist douchebags, the consequence is social pressure.  If somebody hits you in the mouth for spouting off racist shit, they'll go to jail and you'll just have to man up or stop saying racist shit.  It's always been your call.

End of.

Right.  This seems to be what I'm hearing from Neo and co.  Those white supremacists had every right to march through town with torches and weapons, shouting thinly veiled threats, and inciting terror, because this is their right as Americans.  But the counter-protestors, just as American, with the same damn rights, should have...run inside and his under their beds because...why, again?

Quit bothering them poor nazis! They're just trying to exercise their American right to terrorize minorities.

(August 20, 2017 at 2:06 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 20, 2017 at 12:41 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If mobs had been rioting to pull down those statues there wouldn;t be so many of them standing, sweetheart.  Mobs rioting to tear shit down after nazis killed one of their own, on the other hand, is -very- american.  

You;re here bullshitting us about free speech and people assualting each other...remind me who ran over whom, again?  In any case, you and your alt right pals aren;t arguing for free speech, what you want is -consequence- free speech.  There is no such right.  Further, the cops aren't shutting you down, and when the conseqwunces of you freely speaking your racist minds leads to violence they protect you.....so there's no point in bitching about your right to free speech.  You obviously have it.  If you say racist shit, the consequence is being called a racist.  If you support racist douchebags, the consequence is social pressure.  If somebody hits you in the mouth for spouting off racist shit, they'll go to jail and you'll just have to man up or stop saying racist shit.  It's always been your call.

End of.

Right.  This seems to be what I'm hearing from Neo and co.  Those white supremacists had every right to march through town with torches and weapons, shouting thinly veiled threats, and inciting terror, because this is their right as Americans.  But the counter-protestors, just as American, with the same damn rights, should have...run inside and his under their beds because...why, again?

Quit bothering them poor nazis!  They're just trying to exercise their American right to terrorize minorities.

I for one will not cower and hide from a mob of armed Nazis and kluckers. If they come here, I will be in the street resisting peacefully but in no uncertain terms I will not sit idly by.

As far I'm concerned, the oath I swore in 1986 to defend our Constitution from foreign and domestic enemies is still binding.

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -- John Stuart Mill

(August 20, 2017 at 1:06 am)Moros Synackaon Wrote:

(August 20, 2017 at 12:33 am)Tizheruk Wrote: While true he consulted black leaders he still did not want them in America . And yes he wanted some black sufferage but it was very political rather then personal . It's not like his attitudes were rare . The anti slavery movement was against slavery not really against racism .

You're fairly confident on an issue most historians feel is not settled. Furthermore, it is irrelevant what lies in a mans soul, only his deeds matter. For someone who doesn't want Blacks in America, Lincoln had a funny way of demonstrating it by bringing in the very people he supposedly didn't want to critique his proposal.

I question your genuineness and also question the political axe you've chosen. I've cited his own words up to his last three days of life. That should take a larger role in examining the racial attitudes of President Lincoln, not summarily dismissed out of hand because it inconveniences you.

1. I never said it was settled. But it what I take from his actions and words . I expect he wanted the blacks to go elsewhere but was willing to give them a say in there own destiny .

2. My words have nothing to do with politics . And I dismissed nothing .  I simply walked away with the different impression after reading his last words and early writings. If I were interested in going after Republicans who boast about being the party of Lincoln I could have easily just pointed out they are his party no more.

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it,s very American to stand up to bullies and hate mongers.

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("Mob" destroying statue of Saddam )

No No your doing it wrong .You have to vote on destroying the monument to your autocratic overlord .

Predictable. Leftists now want to purge the country of Monuments dedicated to George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Jackson (who kicked the dog shit out of the invading British armies at The Battle Of New Orleans), Thomas Jefferson, and last year Theodore Roosevelt's name was on the list of monuments and statues targeted by the bigoted and radical alt left. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017...go-an-abs/

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/cnn-co...come-down/

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/j...ve-owners/

Oh noooooes, all those peaceful statues are getting targeted by violent leftists!  Quick, somebody get the keys to the dodge!

(August 20, 2017 at 4:20 pm)A Theist Wrote: Predictable. Leftists now want to purge the country of Monuments dedicated to George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Jackson (who kicked the dog shit out of the invading British armies at The Battle Of New Orleans), Thomas Jefferson, and last year Theodore Roosevelt's name was on the list of monuments and statues targeted by the bigoted and radical alt left. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017...go-an-abs/

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/cnn-co...come-down/

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/j...ve-owners/

Ahh...typical A Theist thread participation.  Spray diarrhea all over the board, fail to read, refuse to interact, refuse to answer questions or otherwise engage in any one line of discourse, come back a day or two later and spray some more, differently-colored diarrhea all over the thread.  Repeat.  

100% ass-blowing and 0% thinking.  Performed like a true Trump-supporter.  

Why do you bother, dude?

(August 20, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: As far I'm concerned, the oath I swore in 1986 to defend our Constitution from foreign and domestic enemies is still binding.

I feel exactly this way as well ... exactly.

(August 20, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -- John Stuart Mill

You sure are whacking some moles here, CD. Another spot-on point.

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(August 20, 2017 at 4:20 pm)A Theist Wrote: Predictable. Leftists now want to purge the country of Monuments dedicated to George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Jackson (who kicked the dog shit out of the invading British armies at The Battle Of New Orleans), Thomas Jefferson, and last year Theodore Roosevelt's name was on the list of monuments and statues targeted by the bigoted and radical alt left. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017...go-an-abs/

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/cnn-co...come-down/

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/j...ve-owners/

Dear lord, Americans expressing their own opinions ... whatever are we to do?

I joined the Illinois American Civil Liberties Union during the last half of the 1980s. I was leading a pretty complicated life (LOL) and thought my involvement with the ACLU was a good match with everything else I was doing.

At the time I was working for a defense contractor, and 'management' was entirely out in the open about their conservative bent (failed SCOTUS nominee Robert Bork even being on the board of directors), I was up to my eyeballs, so to speak, in volunteering for an HIV hospice group, was quite active in 12 Steppers and gay 12 steppers, was in gay rights marches in Dubuque (that one had a bomb threat), Iowa City (Our Liberties we prize, our rights we will maintain!), and Chicago. It was an exciting time, I was younger and had the energy to stay that involved in all that.

I recall an ACLU conference in (IIRC) Champaign Urbana, but maybe Peoria(?) that was an eye opener regarding pedophilia in the priesthood and several censorship controversies.

I was also involved in a library board taking almost unbelievably heat for wanting to have the Madonna book "Sex" on it's shelves and there being one (2?) public meetings on it and our ACLU group went.

I remember marching with the ACLU contigent in a couple of parades and hearing some catcalls/verbal abuse from the crowd.

Additionally, this was the 80's, as I recall around 10 years after the Skokie controversy and there were folks at the meetings that had been around for THAT.

The recent spate of controversies seems to be getting ahead of the ACLU, but I admit in this rural backwater I'm in, I'm not plugged into that anymore.

According to Adolf

People expressing an opinion about removing monuments because of there ties to racism is bigoted .