Theists, are you comfortable knowing that the thing you worship will never reveal himself to you?
He will never help you when you are ill. He will never be your wingman in battle. Never protect you from harm.

That’s the problem with believing in the unfalsifiable: You could be wrong and you’d never find out.
To me, personally, that is religion's greatest marketing strength. It's their ultimate product which they are selling to you.
One which you yourself as a customer cannot even prove you haven't received!!!

Needing blind faith to believe in the absurd or extraordinary isn't just recommended, it's mandatory!

And then when you haven't been healed of your affliction(s), it's your fault. You didn't have enough faith, apparently.

If god did exist and he could heal at no cost to himself, it would be his duty to heal, not an act of extreme mercy. If I had a kid with a serious disease and all I had to do was direct my will to heal him or her, I would be a terrible parent if I didn't do so.

Who am I to demand anything from God? But yeah, divine hiddenness is probably one of the more difficult theological problems. I guess the question in my mind is whether the things that are evident about the world give me sufficient reason to believe. I don't require certainty and maybe a fair amount of uncertainty is what makes it a true choice about whether or not to believe.

Who is god to demand anything from you? 

We see things differently, you and I.  I see divine hiddenness as a pro, not a problem, for religious traditions.  It draws a paralel between the divine and human experience and contextualizes our anguish in those instances where we cry out to heaven - and are treated to deafening silence.  Without that device, the narratives would be entirely uncompelling.  They wopuld be stories of wishgranting djinn who answer when we call...and at that point, no one could avoid the realization that despite the contents of the narrative, the gods don't pick up the phone in our lives.

They would lose their ability to hold our imaginations..and with that, any ability to smuggle in meaningful and rich expositions on the human condition between the divine margins - or even more simply, to get us through one moment of boredom by telling a clever tale.

I don't demand certainty either. As Rowan Atkinson put it, "My life certainly has a certain uncertainty about it; and I'm certain yours does, too. So with my uncertainty, and your uncertainty, there's certainly a certain degree of uncertainty about - of that, we can be quite sure."

However, a god that consistently remains hidden despite all attempts to seek it presumably doesn't care whether or not I believe in it; or worse, actively wants me not to. Either way, who am I to go against its wishes?

Indeed the delusion that god is to be found in the richness of human experience . Rather then just accepting it as human experience . Is foolish . And yes divine hiddenness is a problem . The mere fact we know he exists would change nothing.

Quote:Theists, are you comfortable knowing that the thing you worship will never reveal himself to you?

Um, some of them are so fucking stupid they think 'god' talks to them.

They think that the person they're talking to is stupid enough to take them at their word, at least.

That's actually a pet peeve of mine.  These folks who say god spoke to them never reward you with anything other than a mewling retraction when asked about their little chit chat with the lord of creation.

If what you mean when you say "god spoke to me" is that you saw a jesus shaped tuft of clouds while you were staring into the sky wondering whether you should get fries with that...then just lead in that way, don't tell me jesus told you that you should totally not get the fries, and so saved you from a cholesterol induced heart attack.

Fuckin tedious assholes....

(August 25, 2017 at 10:44 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Who am I to demand anything from God? But yeah, divine hiddenness is probably one of the more difficult theological problems. I guess the question in my mind is whether the things that are evident about the world give me sufficient reason to believe. I don't require certainty and maybe a fair amount of uncertainty is what makes it a true choice about whether or not to believe.

Only you can answer that question, sunshine. If, and only if, the answer is "Someone who believes in a GOOD, JUST, KIND, LOVING god", then you need not feel inclined to give any defense against this. If, however, you're the sort of naive asshat who wants to spin the whole flood thing into a pool party that just got a little out of control but good times were had by all while it lasted, then you'd better be goddamn well prepared to fucking answer.

A truly ultimately good god would create with no strings attached, no demand nor even encouragement of worship in return for a gift, for what is a gift if it's meant to be paid back? That's a loan, not a gift, see the difference (what am I saying, of course you fucking don't)? So clearly generosity is not Yahweh's forte nor priority. Not a good god by any stretch. Worship that only out of fear of fiery pitchforks if you must but don't dare claim love or comfort.

Also a truly ultimately good god would be humble enough to remain anonymous by rote, and not permit interpretations of itself to permeate its creation. It would be trivial for such a powerful creator being to simply eliminate that one little area of thought from the consciousness of its otherwise free-willed creatures. After all, it didn't give us longer lifespans, immunity from disease or the ability to breathe underwater, so it's not like omitting certain things isn't out of the question for it and still claiming (falsely as I have repeatedly proven) that we've got free will.