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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 11:15 am
(August 29, 2017 at 11:08 am)Tizheruk Wrote: (August 29, 2017 at 11:01 am)Astonished Wrote: Dude, don't do that. I thought you were Shit-Eating Doofus Rik invading this thread too. Rik does not own that emoji. And we have every right to use it .
He made it tainted. LOL.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
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There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 11:23 am
(August 29, 2017 at 10:27 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: (August 29, 2017 at 10:19 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: What they seen of the event, is not information in which to base a conclusion? Does a person need to see the evidence for themselves, in order for it to be evidence?
You missed my point. The event is not the evidence. The event is the occurrence. If you're going to engage in discussion, it pays to use words in accordance with their definitions.
As for your second question, I've already mentioned in this thread that I think testimony may be evidence in some situations. If a person comes to a conclusion in the absence of evidence -- such as you or NS with regards to your faith -- that's your business. If you want to convince me of something, bring me evidence.
Roadrunner79 and I are in fact paying very close attention to definitions. The word evidence has two connotations: (1) that which is evident, i.e. basic facts and observations; and (2) that which given warrant to an opinion. We claim nothing more than the notion that personal testimony satisfies the definition as (1) and that a sufficient quantity of quality testimony can give warrant satisfies the definition as (2).
We are also saying that the distinction between (1) and (2) must be mutually understood before there can be a meaningful debate about any specific opinion
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 11:27 am
I would say "that which gives warrant to a belief", rather than an opinion. Opinions can be baseless, and most often are.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 11:30 am
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2017 at 11:30 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Testimony makes nothing evident, and is not a basic fact or observation. It's (at least purportedly) a story -about- some basic fact or observation; as relayed by the issuer.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 11:38 am
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2017 at 12:13 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:that which gives warrant to a belief",
And so wooter will start his reformed epistemology BS . As if enough nails have not been have been hammered in thay coffin .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 11:43 am
Is testimony a fact? Can we start there before we start debating whether it's evidence? Isn't that kind of a minimum requirement? Why didn't we establish that beforehand?
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 11:46 am
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2017 at 11:51 am by RoadRunner79.)
(August 29, 2017 at 11:27 am)Cyberman Wrote: I would say "that which gives warrant to a belief", rather than an opinion. Opinions can be baseless, and most often are.
I understand the distinction your are trying to make, but I think the same argument can be made for both.... justified belief or opinion perhaps would be better
(August 29, 2017 at 11:43 am)Astonished Wrote: Is testimony a fact? Can we start there before we start debating whether it's evidence? Isn't that kind of a minimum requirement? Why didn't we establish that beforehand?
If not, then the only facts are ones that you have personally observed, and they are no longer facts, once you transfer this information to another.
(August 29, 2017 at 11:23 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 29, 2017 at 10:27 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You missed my point. The event is not the evidence. The event is the occurrence. If you're going to engage in discussion, it pays to use words in accordance with their definitions.
As for your second question, I've already mentioned in this thread that I think testimony may be evidence in some situations. If a person comes to a conclusion in the absence of evidence -- such as you or NS with regards to your faith -- that's your business. If you want to convince me of something, bring me evidence.
Roadrunner79 and I are in fact paying very close attention to definitions. The word evidence has two connotations: (1) that which is evident, i.e. basic facts and observations; and (2) that which given warrant to an opinion. We claim nothing more than the notion that personal testimony satisfies the definition as (1) and that a sufficient quantity of quality testimony can give warrant satisfies the definition as (2).
We are also saying that the distinction between (1) and (2) must be mutually understood before there can be a meaningful debate about any specific opinion
I do think that much of this is mostly rhetoric, so that they can avoid evidence that is unpalatable to them without thinking. Hence the constant shifting. However try dismissing what they want to present as just testimony and no evidence, and see how quickly the name calling starts again.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 12:08 pm
And here we go again with the pre-emptive character assassination. I wonder why?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 12:13 pm
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2017 at 12:14 pm by Amarok.)
Yup on schedule
And no road it's not the same for both.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 12:36 pm
(August 28, 2017 at 8:27 pm)Hammy Wrote: (August 21, 2017 at 9:21 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Testimony has to be backed up with other evidence.
Because it's not evidence! 
P.S. If it was evidence it would stand on it's own at least as weak evidence.
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