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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 7:19 am
Plain white toast is good enough for me, and I don't have anything else, therefore plain white toast is evidence.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 7:43 am
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 7:43 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(August 29, 2017 at 10:17 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (August 29, 2017 at 9:04 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Neither of those links works for me; they deliver "page not found" messages.
Ironic, considering the topic of this thread.
Sorry about that.
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-o...24282.html
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/-so-i...17488.html
So you've got some quotes from lawyers online regarding the pertinacity of testimony as evidence. And as I've said myself, sometimes testimony can be evidence.
Now reread my first post in this thread: when I got home from work today, I saw an invisible dragon in my garage. You clearly had a problem with it, and even raised a cogent objection ... but you just never did make the last mile, which is to understand that some testimony under some circumstances is evidential, most testimony will need to be backed up by physical evidence, and some testimony is utter shit.
Carrying the point forward a bit further, if testimony needs support from physical or forensic evidence, what does that say about its place in evidentiary proceedings? TGB rightly notes that while convictions based on testimony have been thrown out based on DNA exonerations (oh dear, physical evidence!), none based on physical evidence have been thrown out based on testimony.
That should tell you something about the hierarchy of evidence.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 9:13 am
RoadRunner79 Wrote:Mister Agenda Wrote:Have you been asking us to present evidence of something and we've been questioning your integrity instead of providing it? That WOULD be hypocritical.
Glad that you agree!
That it would be hypocritical? If it were true, yes. Link, please. Just one will do, if it illustrates your point.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 9:36 am
(August 30, 2017 at 9:13 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: RoadRunner79 Wrote:Glad that you agree!
That it would be hypocritical? If it were true, yes. Link, please. Just one will do, if it illustrates your point.
We've been attacking his character but also providing evidence. I guess because we've done one, that negates the other (in his mind.) Boy, the world works very differently to someone with that kind of mental defect.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 10:11 am
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 10:13 am by Mister Agenda.)
Neo-Scholastic Wrote:Thumpalumpacus Wrote:You missed my point. The event is not the evidence. The event is the occurrence. If you're going to engage in discussion, it pays to use words in accordance with their definitions.
As for your second question, I've already mentioned in this thread that I think testimony may be evidence in some situations. If a person comes to a conclusion in the absence of evidence -- such as you or NS with regards to your faith -- that's your business. If you want to convince me of something, bring me evidence.
Roadrunner79 and I are in fact paying very close attention to definitions. The word evidence has two connotations: (1) that which is evident, i.e. basic facts and observations; and (2) that which given warrant to an opinion. We claim nothing more than the notion that personal testimony satisfies the definition as (1) and that a sufficient quantity of quality testimony can give warrant satisfies the definition as (2).
We are also saying that the distinction between (1) and (2) must be mutually understood before there can be a meaningful debate about any specific opinion
How do you determine that the quality of the testimony is sufficient?
RoadRunner79 Wrote:I do think that much of this is mostly rhetoric, so that they can avoid evidence that is unpalatable to them without thinking. Hence the constant shifting. However try dismissing what they want to present as just testimony and no evidence, and see how quickly the name calling starts again.
Both appeal to motivation and poisoning the well are fallacious.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 10:25 am
(August 30, 2017 at 10:11 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: How do you determine that the quality of the testimony is sufficient? There are no hard and fast rules. Everyone must decide for themselves what is reasonable. YMMV That said a reasonable person at least tries to be consistent. Personally I think there is a middle ground between Skeptical Iquirer and Coast to Coast am.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 11:14 am
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 11:14 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You realize that reason refers explicitly to a set of "hard and fast" rules that people emphatically -do not- get to decide for themselves, right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 11:37 am
Not in wooters world apparently
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 11:39 am
Depends on the hour of the day, I think. Sometimes things are a logical necessity and so, existent; and others...we just decide for ourselves and whatnot.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 11:39 am
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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