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(August 30, 2017 at 3:30 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:
(August 30, 2017 at 2:06 am)Godisgood Wrote: God cannot sin, so His standard is objective.
The former is a meaningless tautology (*), and the latter does not logically follow from it.
(*) Sin being the state of acting outside of god's will, of course god could not do so. If I were to coin a term "bleem", defined as "acting outside the will of Cthulhu", well, I tautologically couldn't bleem either.
Seriously, you apologists need to up your game. As it stands, it's barely good enough to keep the rubes in line.
I'm going out this weekend and I'm bleeming.
Lot's of bleeming.
Granted, I don't know your entire will, but I'm sure something I do will count as a bleem!
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
August 30, 2017 at 10:26 pm (This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 10:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 30, 2017 at 7:34 pm)Godisgood Wrote: Where did you get your objective standard from?
From the only place you can find an objective moral standard, moral facts of a matter.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(August 30, 2017 at 7:34 pm)Godisgood Wrote: It's my opinion that you and your god are immoral, sure. I base my opinion on my objective standards of morality.
Where did you get your objective standard from?
You cant just say That is objectively wrong. It doesn't work that way. So where did you get your objective standard from??
If they're your standards, how are they objective?
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
It's his inability to quote that has you asking him, but that's one of my comments above his questions, Harry. In any case, the question you asked is equivalent to "If it's your ruler, how is it objective".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
August 31, 2017 at 4:57 pm (This post was last modified: August 31, 2017 at 4:59 pm by Godscreated.)
(August 30, 2017 at 7:55 am)Harry Nevis Wrote:
(August 30, 2017 at 2:53 am)Godscreated Wrote: I've explained those verses to them many times and they just keep on bring them up. Even if they do listen they do not learn or care to learn, you will find some here who are going to show how little they care about truth.
GC
Or maybe we just don't buy your explanations. It's revealing how to you "learn" means believe what I tell you, and "truth" means whatever you believe.
The verses are obvious to those who care to read them, instead you all just post them over and over without trying to learn what the verses are about, I call that ignorance to learning, a problem many here have.
(August 30, 2017 at 2:13 am)Godisgood Wrote:
Without a standard of morality, there is no way to judge what is good or bad. Atheists, for example, might decry what is the behavior of God in the Old Testament when he orders the destruction of people groups. But, by what standard does any atheist have to judge what is morally correct? At best, an atheist would only have the ability to express an opinion since he cannot offer any objective standard of morality.
I am not judging what is right and wrong. God does, and he has communicated his standard of righteousness. his communication is found in the Bible. Take the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20. We see a codification of moral standards. We are told not to lie, not to commit adultery, not to covet, etc. These are standards given to us by God, and though there are other cultures that don't believe in the biblical God, they might have similar moral codes. But, for the Christian, the Bible is the supreme authority that judges what is moral.
We can only judge what is moral if we have a standard given to us by God, not some standard that is based on emotion, opinion, or the changing morals of society. Even though atheists, agnostics, Muslims, and non-Christians might not approve of standards found in the Scriptures, we Christians believe that the Bible is the revealed and inspired Word of God and that within its pages are the moral standards by which we are to model our behavior. Therefore, the right we have to judge what is moral comes from God as is revealed in his Word.
This is also from an article that I liked to be able to present to you as well.
Harry N Wrote:Morality IS based on the opinions and emotions, and frequently changes. The interpretations of your god's morality has quite a bit over the years.
God's morality given to men has never changed because God is unchanging. Man's morality changes with the whims and lies of his heart, now you've seen the truth, please remember it.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
August 31, 2017 at 5:24 pm (This post was last modified: August 31, 2017 at 5:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
We're all well aware that "god" never got around to acknowledging or atoning for it's moral failure...nor...for that matter, have it's followers ever stopped claiming that it still, somehow, maintains moral superiority to the very men who have since learned better.
This is just one of the many reasons that neither god nor his followers, who..like their god, never learned better and will never offer apology, are qualified for the job of sitting in moral judgement over someone who -has- learned better.
This is -why- you find yourself, on these boards, offering defense of slavery. Offering defense of genocide. Offering defense of vicarious redemption. This is why there's nothing, to your mind, -objectively- wrong about child sex trafficking......so long as it's your boy telling people to do it. In fact, somehow, this is just one of many demonstrations of his perfect goodness, his perfect justice, his absolute moral authority.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
September 1, 2017 at 1:36 am (This post was last modified: September 1, 2017 at 1:55 am by Godisgood.)
Ill be more than happy to tell you how they are but first things first!!
I have an objection raised by an atheist. His objection is similiar to yours. I would like you to read it and tell me if you agree. Okay??
From the only place you can find an objective moral standard, moral facts of a matter.
I dont know what that means??
From the only place you can find an objective moral standard, moral facts of a matter.
I dont know what that means??
Moral facts of a matter.
Actually - we DO indeed have a right to judge - because the god is claimed to be ALL GOOD and ALL JUST. If the evidence is to the contrary - we can reject those claims.
No you dont. Even if the evidence seems to be against what He might do that jdoesnt give you the right to judge Him. We are finite beings and He is an INFINITE BEING WHO KNOWS EVERYTHING AND WE DONT KNOW EVERYTHING SO its rididculous for finite beings to be judging an all powerful God.
Furthermore, God is completely Just in judging those who disobey Him. If He didnt punish them, He would be approving of Sin.
(September 1, 2017 at 1:36 am)Godisgood Wrote: Even if the evidence seems to be against what He might do that jdoesnt give you the right to judge Him. We are finite beings and He is an INFINITE BEING WHO KNOWS EVERYTHING AND WE DONT KNOW EVERYTHING SO its rididculous for finite beings to be judging an all powerful God.
Furthermore, God is completely Just in judging those who disobey Him. If He didnt punish them, He would be approving of Sin.
Well, "sin" is just your alleged god's subjective opinion. There is nothing demonstrably objective about any of the Biblical laws.
Furthermore, if eating pork is a sin, then your god is an accomplice in the creation and consumption of bacon because it supposedly invented pigs.
