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September 24, 2017 at 11:39 am (This post was last modified: September 24, 2017 at 11:45 am by WinterHold.)
(September 23, 2017 at 11:11 pm)Astreja Wrote:
(September 23, 2017 at 6:17 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Observing life leads to believe in the Quran, from my perspective. You have your experiences in life to prove the verses of the book, validating it through and through. Or in other words: the argument from design.
I have life experiences, but they never led me towards the Quran. They did lead me towards music, and astronomy, and writing. Don't underestimate the power of culture (both in one's family of origin and the culture of where we grow up) to influence us.
If God willed; he would lead you to the book. There is no standard for how to get guided like many religious institutions and members claim; the only rule is to be good, doing the things that God loves. Charity, treating family with respect, being merciful to the poor and needy; all these play a factor according to this verse:
Quote:Sura 90, The Quran:
( 11 ) But he has not broken through the difficult pass.
( 12 ) And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass? ( 13 ) It is the freeing of a slave ( 14 ) Or feeding on a day of severe hunger ( 15 ) An orphan of near relationship ( 16 ) Or a needy person in misery
( 17 ) And then being among those who believed and advised one another to patience and advised one another to compassion.
All I can say, is that being nice, being good, having a heart in general opens the road to belief.
Quote:Sura 13, The Quran:
( 11 ) For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah. Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron.
It's a matter of personal choice. That's why compulsion is not the path to change anything in any field in life; let it be religion or other matters. I don't know how God decides, but I know for certain that he's not human, has no gender, "he" is only used a reference to him because Arabic has no adjective for God, and that the more people do good, the more the chance increases for him to guide them to the right path.
It shows itself in the world; too. Bad people perish; while what remains useful to people stay.
I really think you were good enough to be led to the culture you practice. For example:
Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
( 75 ) And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain [in faith]
Personally; I think God is doing what he did to Abraham since the dawn of time; with sparking love for astronomy and inspiring new advancements in the field. Modern humans in specific saw a lot. You too; and me also. Why won't the spark and the interest be of Godly origin?
Maybe he saw something in you, so he sparked the love for astronomy and music in you. Isn't he capable of knowing the future; according to the claims of Mohammed?
September 24, 2017 at 12:53 pm (This post was last modified: September 24, 2017 at 12:56 pm by Mystic.)
(September 23, 2017 at 6:38 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:
(September 23, 2017 at 4:19 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: *smiles*
May God connect us to him, by the means he approves of, and may he guided us by the path he has chosen, and may he show us by the light has brought down, and may he clarify us by the revelation he has revealed, and may he inspire humans to reflect and council one another so that they refute all disputes back to him and to the Messenger he has sent to us and may he make humans fear no one but him till they overcome their enemies, and may he do away with the falsehood and manifest his clear proofs of all his holy books he revealed and may he make us pledge our allegiance to Him through the King he has appointed and make us rely on the leaders he has appointed in his holy book and clear words of his Messenger.
Religion is evil.
Fantasies about how you are superior because you have an imaginary friend is evil.
Thinking that you have to educate people about the fantasies that you have about a god that doesn't exist and entities that don't exist is evil, disrespectful, rude and immature.
If your so-called god can create galaxies with a thought, then god has no need of humans to speak for it. It has no need of holy books. Yes, it can communicate without your help.
So, clearly, you don't even believe all of this crap you're spewing, because you seem to think the all-powerful all-knowing god needs YOUR help. What egotism. What narcissism.
Pure evil.
Do you not see that you are defining good and evil by your desires and that it proves we need guidance from a source that is well aware of who we are and what truly is good and evil?
And that though this guidance is inside all of us, we need outward manifestation, a book from God clarifying and further a Messenger who manifests the true interpretation, and guardians that succeed him to implement the true teachings and remind people of the very path they were called to in the first place?
Quote:MK, how am I to know the difference?
This is a good question, but if you decided you can't know then you have given up before the journey to wisdom and knowledge even really started.
All I am saying is God is best to give an explanation, his chosen ones understand that explanation best and hence if there are proofs of God, they shouldn't be searched from every Tom, Rick and Jerry nor from me, but you must find those who if God does exist, would hold the answers and who he would want us to seek the answers from.
(September 23, 2017 at 6:55 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I would say it has everything to do with the person; because a clean mind would never pick up a sick mutation to be their faith.
*smiles*
The chosen ones are the Signs of God, the ways of God, the means towards God, the Captains of the Ships that God wants us to board, the reciters by which we are to recite his book mainly when it says to recite by his name, and they are the name of God by which that book which we don't know but is kept safe in a safeguarded tablet becomes a guidance and its signs become manifest, and they are the leaders who guide by God's command by which the knot on Mohammad's tongue and the constriction on his heart, and the burden on his back, was lifted, the family of the reminder, the near kin of the Messenger, the household of revelation, the chosen submitters who Abraham prayed hearts would incline to, the successors of lantern giving light, the inheritors of the bright sun, the covenant of the Moon Mountain (Mount Sinai), the twelve ways who are all the way after the Mohammad who guide by the truth and by it they establish justice, the beautiful names which God wishes us to call him by, and the flags of God to rally on, the Witnesses of the people of their time, the proofs of God which are the Guides of their time, the true leaders, the Kings and Ministers on behalf of God. They are philosophers Kings that see justice talked by Plato, the Navigators to the just city the world must come to spoken by Socrates, and they are the family of the reminder by which God is to be remembered and approached, by which we are to remember who we truly are and the path we are called to.
(September 24, 2017 at 12:53 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(September 23, 2017 at 6:38 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Religion is evil.
Fantasies about how you are superior because you have an imaginary friend is evil.
Thinking that you have to educate people about the fantasies that you have about a god that doesn't exist and entities that don't exist is evil, disrespectful, rude and immature.
If your so-called god can create galaxies with a thought, then god has no need of humans to speak for it. It has no need of holy books. Yes, it can communicate without your help.
So, clearly, you don't even believe all of this crap you're spewing, because you seem to think the all-powerful all-knowing god needs YOUR help. What egotism. What narcissism.
Pure evil.
Do you not see that you are defining good and evil by your desires and that it proves we need guidance from a source that is well aware of who we are and what truly is good and evil?
And that though this guidance is inside all of us, we need outward manifestation, a book from God clarifying and further a Messenger who manifests the true interpretation, and guardians that succeed him to implement the true teachings and remind people of the very path they were called to in the first place?
The book is a MacGuffin.
In your narrative, this MacGuffin isn't even original. Others had the original idea of a holy book. Others had the original idea of a messenger who manifests true interpretation, J.C., Others had the guardians that succeed him, the apostles.
Face it, your religion is a copycat...
A man-made copycat.
Oh, and that book you say is from god... it is not. It is from man. It is man-made.
Like all religions, yours too is man-made.
God is made to the image of man, with all the flaws of humanity and all the desires of humanity bundled into one very fuzzily defined entity.
(September 24, 2017 at 12:53 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(September 23, 2017 at 6:38 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Religion is evil.
Fantasies about how you are superior because you have an imaginary friend is evil.
Thinking that you have to educate people about the fantasies that you have about a god that doesn't exist and entities that don't exist is evil, disrespectful, rude and immature.
If your so-called god can create galaxies with a thought, then god has no need of humans to speak for it. It has no need of holy books. Yes, it can communicate without your help.
So, clearly, you don't even believe all of this crap you're spewing, because you seem to think the all-powerful all-knowing god needs YOUR help. What egotism. What narcissism.
Pure evil.
Do you not see that you are defining good and evil by your desires and that it proves we need guidance from a source that is well aware of who we are and what truly is good and evil?
And that though this guidance is inside all of us, we need outward manifestation, a book from God clarifying and further a Messenger who manifests the true interpretation, and guardians that succeed him to implement the true teachings and remind people of the very path they were called to in the first place?
Quote:
MK, how am I to know the difference?
This is a good question, but if you decided you can't know then you have given up before the journey to wisdom and knowledge even really started.
All I am saying is God is best to give an explanation, his chosen ones understand that explanation best and hence if there are proofs of God, they shouldn't be searched from every Tom, Rick and Jerry nor from me, but you must find those who if God does exist, would hold the answers and who he would want us to seek the answers from.
(September 23, 2017 at 6:55 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
I would say it has everything to do with the person; because a clean mind would never pick up a sick mutation to be their faith.
*smiles*
The chosen ones are the Signs of God, the ways of God, the means towards God, the Captains of the Ships that God wants us to board, the reciters by which we are to recite his book mainly when it says to recite by his name, and they are the name of God by which that book which we don't know but is kept safe in a safeguarded tablet becomes a guidance and its signs become manifest, and they are the leaders who guide by God's command by which the knot on Mohammad's tongue and the constriction on his heart, and the burden on his back, was lifted, the family of the reminder, the near kin of the Messenger, the household of revelation, the chosen submitters who Abraham prayed hearts would incline to, the successors of lantern giving light, the inheritors of the bright sun, the covenant of the Moon Mountain (Mount Sinai), the twelve ways who are all the way after the Mohammad who guide by the truth and by it they establish justice, the beautiful names which God wishes us to call him by, and the flags of God to rally on, the Witnesses of the people of their time, the proofs of God which are the Guides of their time, the true leaders, the Kings and Ministers on behalf of God. They are philosophers Kings that see justice talked by Plato, the Navigators to the just city the world must come to spoken by Socrates, and they are the family of the reminder by which God is to be remembered and approached, by which we are to remember who we truly are and the path we are called to.
I am defining good and evil as it IS - simple humanity. No need for a deity, we have developed our own understanding of right and wrong through eons of evolution and the suffering we created by inhumanity to others.
There is no "source". There is no morality coming from any deity or any religious book. The Bible and the Quran both fail utterly at teaching morality.
There is no book from "god" and no messenger from "god" - only fantasy writings and people who want to control others. There should never be any need for any human being to transmit any sort of message from a deity. If your deity has only one-hundredth of the ability you profess, then it can communicate by itself. It apparently NEEDS human worship and attention, and yet, in this age where a 7-year-old can send a message to all corners of the world . . . we get nothing from "god". Only the rantings of witch doctors trying to sell their delusions.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
September 24, 2017 at 4:09 pm (This post was last modified: September 24, 2017 at 4:12 pm by WinterHold.)
(September 24, 2017 at 2:24 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: I am defining good and evil as it IS - simple humanity. No need for a deity, we have developed our own understanding of right and wrong through eons of evolution and the suffering we created by inhumanity to others.
There is no "source". There is no morality coming from any deity or any religious book. The Bible and the Quran both fail utterly at teaching morality.
There is no book from "god" and no messenger from "god" - only fantasy writings and people who want to control others. There should never be any need for any human being to transmit any sort of message from a deity. If your deity has only one-hundredth of the ability you profess, then it can communicate by itself. It apparently NEEDS human worship and attention, and yet, in this age where a 7-year-old can send a message to all corners of the world . . . we get nothing from "god". Only the rantings of witch doctors trying to sell their delusions.
Every bit of morality was taught to humans through "experience"; and experience comes from interaction with the elements of this universe.
Humans evolved through going through a stage after the next, swallowing every creation they find useful in their disposal.
Here is where the path becomes two:
-A believer would say that a higher creator is responsible for creating what humans used all along to learn what they know.
-A non-believer would say that a higher creator isn't responsible for creating what humans used all along to learn what they know.
No matter what; some people will believe , others will not. Both paths are open, and both paths have followers.
Madness begins when other humans believe they can enforce their beliefs on others; it begins when ego controls a priest or a Sheikh to make him believe he's better than everybody else, or "a favored one". There extremism and evil begin.
(September 24, 2017 at 11:39 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Personally; I think God is doing what he did to Abraham since the dawn of time; with sparking love for astronomy and inspiring new advancements in the field. Modern humans in specific saw a lot. You too; and me also. Why won't the spark and the interest be of Godly origin?
I just don't see why gods have to be involved at all. What's wrong with exploring the universe on one's own and drawing one's own conclusions, without divine intervention?
(September 24, 2017 at 12:53 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: *smiles*
The chosen ones are the Signs of God, the ways of God, the means towards God, the Captains of the Ships that God wants us to board, the reciters by which we are to recite his book mainly when it says to recite by his name, and they are the name of God by which that book which we don't know but is kept safe in a safeguarded tablet becomes a guidance and its signs become manifest, and they are the leaders who guide by God's command by which the knot on Mohammad's tongue and the constriction on his heart, and the burden on his back, was lifted, the family of the reminder, the near kin of the Messenger, the household of revelation, the chosen submitters who Abraham prayed hearts would incline to, the successors of lantern giving light, the inheritors of the bright sun, the covenant of the Moon Mountain (Mount Sinai), the twelve ways who are all the way after the Mohammad who guide by the truth and by it they establish justice, the beautiful names which God wishes us to call him by, and the flags of God to rally on, the Witnesses of the people of their time, the proofs of God which are the Guides of their time, the true leaders, the Kings and Ministers on behalf of God. They are philosophers Kings that see justice talked by Plato, the Navigators to the just city the world must come to spoken by Socrates, and they are the family of the reminder by which God is to be remembered and approached, by which we are to remember who we truly are and the path we are called to.
You have mental problems, and you are hiding that behind religion. Sad.
If you don't have mental problems: Fuck you, your Allah, your pedophile mohammed and all your murderous correligionists. Your words are piss and shit, given the actions of those believers of your faith. Cowards.
Grab a pineaple and stuck it up your arse. Your words are shit.
(September 24, 2017 at 11:39 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Personally; I think God is doing what he did to Abraham since the dawn of time; with sparking love for astronomy and inspiring new advancements in the field. Modern humans in specific saw a lot. You too; and me also. Why won't the spark and the interest be of Godly origin?
I just don't see why gods have to be involved at all. What's wrong with exploring the universe on one's own and drawing one's own conclusions, without divine intervention?
If the observed realm is attractive to the eye, then something probably made it this way for a reason.
Cause and effect; in other words.
(September 24, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Astreja Wrote: I just don't see why gods have to be involved at all. What's wrong with exploring the universe on one's own and drawing one's own conclusions, without divine intervention?
If the observed realm is attractive to the eye, then something probably made it this way for a reason.
Cause and effect; in other words.
Or maybe the eye developed an affinity to the world around.
To find bounty in beauty.
And to flee ugliness.
