(September 29, 2017 at 1:46 pm)Hammy Wrote: This guy is a quack.

(September 29, 2017 at 6:15 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: Have you ever heard the saying that there is no good without god?  In that same sense, there is no good without positive emotions.  When a person without god in his life still makes a decision to save his own life or the life of someone else, then how does the religious doctrine address this?  I'm quite sure it would be the same answer here as well when it comes to positive emotions being the god in our lives.

(September 29, 2017 at 6:21 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(September 29, 2017 at 6:15 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: Have you ever heard the saying that there is no good without god?  In that same sense, there is no good without positive emotions.  When a person without god in his life still makes a decision to save his own life or the life of someone else, then how does the religious doctrine address this?  I'm quite sure it would be the same answer here as well when it comes to positive emotions being the god in our lives.

Fair enough you can say that there is no good without positive emotions, which are intrinsically good.

But then you can't argue that intense ecstasy of an extreme single positive emotion for a few moments isn't better than the 'wisdom' of choosing a variety of positive emotions over a shorter period of time... without borrowing from values other than intrinsically good positive emotions. Wisdom, moderation and variety doesn't matter if all that matters is positive emotions.

So for you to argue that a variety of positive emotions that are non-extreme is necessary... then you'd have to argue that there are other values like moderation that are important too... and not just positive emotions.

(September 29, 2017 at 6:29 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(September 29, 2017 at 6:21 pm)Hammy Wrote: Fair enough you can say that there is no good without positive emotions, which are intrinsically good.

But then you can't argue that intense ecstasy of an extreme single positive emotion for a few moments isn't better than the 'wisdom' of choosing a variety of positive emotions over a shorter period of time... without borrowing from values other than intrinsically good positive emotions. Wisdom, moderation and variety doesn't matter if all that matters is positive emotions.

So for you to argue that a variety of positive emotions that are non-extreme is necessary... then you'd have to argue that there are other values like moderation that are important too... and not just positive emotions.

But the thing is, if I was in the most miserable state of my life and I have made a decision such as getting myself all better so that I can have all the positive emotions I want in my life, then I would still be able to tell that such a decision during that miserable moment was still just a thought.  It was no real good value being perceived in my life at all.  My life was still empty.  It was like I was missing a higher component (the inner light) to truly make my life and atmosphere beautiful and good.  So, how would we accommodate this?  I have, in fact, had such miserable moments happen to me.  Many of them, as a matter of fact.  I have thought that making decisions was something good and beautiful, but my life was still completely empty.  It was still the worst life.

(September 29, 2017 at 6:38 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(September 29, 2017 at 6:29 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: But the thing is, if I was in the most miserable state of my life and I have made a decision such as getting myself all better so that I can have all the positive emotions I want in my life, then I would still be able to tell that such a decision during that miserable moment was still just a thought.  It was no real good value being perceived in my life at all.  My life was still empty.  It was like I was missing a higher component (the inner light) to truly make my life and atmosphere beautiful and good.  So, how would we accommodate this?  I have, in fact, had such miserable moments happen to me.  Many of them, as a matter of fact.  I have thought that making decisions was something good and beautiful, but my life was still completely empty.  It was still the worst life.

What you have said is correct but not relevant.

My point is that if positive emotions are intrinsically good then when you are at your most miserable times in your life your aim is to get maximum positive emotion. And it need not be many positive emotions. And not even for a long time. Because you have no criterion to decide if multiple moderate positive emotions over a long time is better than just one extremely positive emotion for a few moments.

(September 29, 2017 at 6:43 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(September 29, 2017 at 6:38 pm)Hammy Wrote: What you have said is correct but not relevant.

My point is that if positive emotions are intrinsically good then when you are at your most miserable times in your life your aim is to get maximum positive emotion. And it need not be many positive emotions. And not even for a long time. Because you have no criterion to decide if multiple moderate positive emotions over a long time is better than just one extremely positive emotion for a few moments.

But, by this, you are saying that my life was still good and beautiful since I have made a decision where I have decided that it was better for me to get the help I needed rather than to just give up on life entirely.  This wouldn't be any real good and beauty in my life.

(September 29, 2017 at 6:54 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(September 29, 2017 at 6:43 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: But, by this, you are saying that my life was still good and beautiful since I have made a decision where I have decided that it was better for me to get the help I needed rather than to just give up on life entirely.  This wouldn't be any real good and beauty in my life.

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that your life is miserable so the correct thing to do is to stop feeling miserable and start feeling positive emotion by any which way you can. And the greater the intensity of the positive emotion the better. But also the longer you experience the positive emotions for the better. But you have no criterion to decide which is better. You also have no way to decide that two positive emotions are better than one if one of them is more intense than both of them together. So you have no way to decide whether 10 positive emotions experienced mildly for the rest of your life is better than intense ecstasy for 10 minutes. Do you understand?

(September 29, 2017 at 6:15 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: Have you ever heard the saying that there is no good without god?  In that same sense, there is no good without positive emotions. 

(September 29, 2017 at 7:04 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(September 29, 2017 at 6:15 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: Have you ever heard the saying that there is no good without god?  In that same sense, there is no good without positive emotions. 

This statement is inconsistent with your previous contention that there could be emotional good, and good of thought.  If they are separate things, and can exist independent and even in contradiction with each other....then good without positive emotion is not only a possibility, but a an inevitability.

Amusingly, examples are easy to find.  I know it's good to flush the toilet, but doing it doesn't make me euphoric.  You manage to contradict yourself and reality in a single breath.  Bravo.

(September 29, 2017 at 7:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(September 29, 2017 at 6:54 pm)Hammy Wrote: No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that your life is miserable so the correct thing to do is to stop feeling miserable and start feeling positive emotion by any which way you can. And the greater the intensity of the positive emotion the better. But also the longer you experience the positive emotions for the better. But you have no criterion to decide which is better. You also have no way to decide that two positive emotions are better than one if one of them is more intense than both of them together. So you have no way to decide whether 10 positive emotions experienced mildly for the rest of your life is better than intense ecstasy for 10 minutes. Do you understand?

Yes, I understand.  Alright, so this means that if positive emotions were intrinsically good, we would not be able to decide other things and situations as being good or wise.  From here, my worldview/idea would say that the good value and beauty that comes about in our lives through having no positive emotions would be a no quality standard of good value and beauty.  It would still be good value and beauty, but it would be devoid of the light (positive emotions).   It would be like the words good value and beauty being lit up at the entrance to a dance club as opposed to those words being shut down (i.e. "dead").  Those words are still there, but they are "dead."