(October 7, 2017 at 8:35 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(October 6, 2017 at 10:47 am)Drich Wrote: Do you know how I got to go?

i demanded to see it...

If you want to experience it for yourself then threaten to spit in God's eye and demand he show you what was so bad about hell. Over and over and over again. I promise you. you will see Hell. What i can't promise is a return trip home. Even so that what I did. I wanted to know the truth and I jumped off a cliff to find it. I did.

You had a stupid dream, you fucking moron.  But by all means keep misrepresenting it, like the shit you are.  Every time you retell one of your stories, it gets more and more fanciful.  You're a piss poor liar.

My father had a dream that he saw god. Or made up a lie. According to him, he took a nap on the couch, then dreamt that he got up to go to the bathroom. When he saw his reflection in the mirror, god was standing next to him. My father couldn't make out any facial details, just that the figure was radiating light. It told my father something along the lines of "You're doing a good job."

Of course, my father was a child molester with serious issues revolving around anger, paranoia, control, and narcissism. So, whenever someone says they talk to god (or god talks to them), I can't help but think they're a similar kind of raging asshole. Birds of a feather and all that.

(October 7, 2017 at 8:35 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(October 6, 2017 at 10:47 am)Drich Wrote: Do you know how I got to go?

i demanded to see it...

If you want to experience it for yourself then threaten to spit in God's eye and demand he show you what was so bad about hell. Over and over and over again. I promise you. you will see Hell. What i can't promise is a return trip home. Even so that what I did. I wanted to know the truth and I jumped off a cliff to find it. I did.

You had a stupid dream, you fucking moron.  But by all means keep misrepresenting it, like the shit you are.  Every time you retell one of your stories, it gets more and more fanciful.  You're a piss poor liar.

yes a dream fill with details I had no knowledge of but proved to be correct/accurate about Hell.

I grew up thinking Dante's inferno was the actual official version of hell. Image my surprise when there was no saint peter, when there was no pearly gates there were no levels no tormenting demons no fire no brimstone no grand lake where we ll burn forever. My 'dream' was solace to me till I started to study what the bible actually said about hell, and it turns out I experienced what I had not know the scripture said.

I have no issue admitting it was a dream because by definition and my beginning and end points were both my bed, however this experience is seared into me like a hellva hard fought memory.

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Sorry my experiences disturb some of you so much, but it is what it is. I did not make any of this up, I am simply telling you what I experienced after truly seeking God on my level of religious understanding. I kept knocking on his door till he kicked it open and showed me what I wanted to see.

Seriously this is what fuels me. or rather my regret and sorry I felt when an eternity of this torment is what I thought I would have to endure, and the thought of how much different it could be if had I only had been given a chance to know... Not through church as to me I fell through those cracks long a go and the church had become a symbol of the oppsite of what I thought God wanted. What was going to haunt me for ever was the idea of what if... Because I had come to terms with my sin and it was ok that I was in hell for that, but the ide of what if and the sweet moment/sample of God's love I felt was too much to bear. I knew that is what was going to make Hell... Hell.

That is why I'm here. not to save any of you as I know personally not everyone was meant to serve God for ever and can/will find contentment in Hell. I am here for those what if-ers. I don't want anyone to experience the what if part of hell as that will be beyond cruel if I can help it. That said if you do not take my offer at least you won't be a what if-er.. might be a should have done... but not what if... what if can take place out of sheer ignorance, shuld have done is outof defiance and like I saidI think you can come to terms in hell with your own defiance.

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(October 8, 2017 at 1:31 am)KevinM1 Wrote:

(October 7, 2017 at 8:35 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: You had a stupid dream, you fucking moron.  But by all means keep misrepresenting it, like the shit you are.  Every time you retell one of your stories, it gets more and more fanciful.  You're a piss poor liar.

My father had a dream that he saw god.  Or made up a lie.  According to him, he took a nap on the couch, then dreamt that he got up to go to the bathroom.  When he saw his reflection in the mirror, god was standing next to him.  My father couldn't make out any facial details, just that the figure was radiating light.  It told my father something along the lines of "You're doing a good job."

Of course, my father was a child molester with serious issues revolving around anger, paranoia, control, and narcissism.  So, whenever someone says they talk to god (or god talks to them), I can't help but think they're a similar kind of raging asshole.   Birds of a feather and all that.

You do know 'god' is not the only being able to speak to people right? Satan was the angel of light...

Every time I saw "god" or an angel they always came as humble almost homeless dressed men. So there's that. then there the bit in the bible where it says "if an angelic being or anyone claim to be a prophet of god contradicts what is recorded in scripture is a falsely representing themselves as being fro God."

So if Jesus says "if anyone should harm a hair on a 'little one's Head" it would be better if he hung a great stone around his neck and cast himself into the sea. and then you have a 'being of light' telling him he is doing a great job molesting children, then anyone with a little bit of sense could deduce that message was not from God.

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(October 6, 2017 at 3:27 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(October 6, 2017 at 10:47 am)Drich Wrote: If you want to experience it for yourself then threaten to spit in God's eye and demand he show you what was so bad about hell. Over and over and over again. I promise you. you will see Hell. What i can't promise is a return trip home. Even so that what I did. I wanted to know the truth and I jumped off a cliff to find it. I did.

Your method sounds very much like an act of self-hypnosis, especially the "over and over and over again" part.

you miss the obvious to find your 'self diagnosis.'

If you live your life and never find God you will indeed inevitably find Hell. that is why I can not promise a return trip home. But can promise God one way or another will indeed show you the gates of Hell.

(October 7, 2017 at 4:02 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Fun fact: the word 'god' doesn't appear in the Constitution.

So? the consitution set up and defines the thre branches of government how they operate, the powers they are limited to and the dues each branch has. God is not apart of that electoral process.

Quote:Fun fact: most of the Founding Fathers were deists,

you atheist sure must ot like fact, as you so often speak without have any of them backing you up
https://www.quora.com/How-many-of-the-U-...-Christian
now if you click on the link each assertion each name each religion is linked to a wiki page which is linked to several other resource manytimes the official page to that specific individual.:

Founding Fathers
We do have some lists to use to identify the Founding Fathers of the United States:

   Signers of the Continental Association (1774)
   Signers of the United States Declaration of Independence (1776)
   Signers of the Articles of Confederation  (1777)
   Delegates to the Constitutional Convention (1787)

Christian Defined
And we can easily define Christian  by including anyone who was Protestant  (Episcopalian, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Dutch Reformed, and Methodists) or Roman Catholic and excluding anyone who leaned toward Deism.

The Count
Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants (28 Episcopalian, 8 Presbyterians, 7  Congregationalists, 2  Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, and 2  Methodists), and 2 were Roman Catholics (1)

That leaves 51 Christians and 4 others.  The other four being

   Benjamin Franklin (Deist)
   George Washington (Deist or Episcopal)
   James Madison (Deist or Episcopal)
   Hugh Williamson (Deist or Presbyterian)

Significantly Not Present
Thomas Jefferson (Christian deism), John Adams (Unitarianism), John Hancock  (Unitarian Universalism), and Samuel Adams (Congregational)
believing in a god that was akin to a clock maker rather than one who played voyeur.

So basically you have Franklin and Jefferson if you do not count his own self identification as being 'protestant, without a label' first.

Quote:Fun fact: I actually did my senior university project on the sermons of a local Revolutionary War pastor, and how much his rhetoric played (if it played any role at all) in forming and supporting the attitudes of rebellion among the common folk.

was it a mail away university? was it maybe a British university (because they still think they won the war because of the 1812 war)

Quote:One of the benefits of living in one of the original colonies is having the history of the era at my fingertips

one of the better things of haveing the interwebs is you can provide evidence that shoots down local folk lore.

Quote:.  Actually being able to touch and hold the manuscripts was pretty amazing from a historical POV.  If any of you have the good fortune to visit NH, and enjoy history, check out Strawbery Banke (http://www.strawberybanke.org/).

quaint

Quote:Anyway, while it's true that the Founders generally believed in a god, it certainly wasn't the same one most Christians, especially non-denominationals and/or evangelicals, today believe in.  These were men of the Enlightenment.  And even then, their actions often belied their words (see: slavery).  

no, it was the very same God. they simply understood more. they like I do understand that following God is not about a series of rules or traditions that must be observed. that it is a service one based on an individuals abilities rather than an arbutary bar of set results.

Quote:Ultimately, the genesis of our government has far more to do with British Common Law than anything to do with religion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jz1TjCphXE
The correct answer is: What is the Iroquois Confederacy
Religion was not meant to be the seat of government nor was anything the British were doing.

Quote: And if you don't believe me, you can ask my former professor (https://cola.unh.edu/faculty-member/james-farrell), who's Catholic (as though that matters).

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Or you can provide Mr. Farrell or his brother william the FACTS based evidence I provided you and you'll get to hear him make his best best motor boat impersonation "But, But, But, But"

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(October 7, 2017 at 8:44 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(October 6, 2017 at 1:56 pm)Drich Wrote: So tell me some more about what your America would look like without a  constitution or bill of rights...

The Constitution and Bill of Rights were created specifically to avoid theocracies, you moron.

Here's one for you:

The Treaty of Tripoli (created under Washington, and ratified under Adams)

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries"

Hey dumb ass... This isn't about forming a theocracy

You beloved minimalist simply hates the constitution alltogether!!! and says America would be a better place without one. No government no bill of right, just some hippy nut job version of communist law.

So when he says I'm crazy I simply ask him to explain his version of commie/socialism to us again.

Why can't you idiots ever read what is on page?? Why must you all assume that all of you/atheist are the 'sane ones?' Why must you add narrative when one clearly does not exist? That's what you had to do when you accused me of wanting to start a theocracy.. Hows about you dumb asses asking a question or two? I get tired of taking you all to task when you screw up this bad.

Wait........wait.  Everytime you see god or angels they come in the form of homeless men?  This has happened more than once? 

Okay.....so, have you ever given any thought to the possibility that these angels, and god..were just homeless men...and that the shit they apparently tell you about the divine universe might be, oh, IDK, the ramblings of homeless men?

Regarding the religion of the Founders, many of them weren't (and aren't today, in some circles) considered true Christians (Roman Catholics, Unitarians, members of the Church of England, etc.). Moreover, Franklin and Madison - deists - were two of the key architects of our government. Much of what we consider of our classical Federal government comes directly from them. Even then, the way the Founders (and colonists) viewed their religion was far different than modern Christians. The Constitution is a secular document for a reason.

Regarding the Iroquois Confederacy, while our government has acknowledged it as an inspiration for our own Constitution, there's controversy surrounding its actual role in the creation of our document. Namely that much of what's presented within doesn't actually match up all that well to what our Constitution became. Our government, and, perhaps, more specifically the way in which we govern is far closer to the British system than anything the Iroquois did.

Of course, if you have any real questions on this, you could always email my old professor.

(October 6, 2017 at 2:36 pm)Succubus Wrote:

(October 6, 2017 at 2:03 pm)snowtracks Wrote: What determines one's eternity is acceptance or rejections of the offer of Salvation. God's nature doesn't allow for torment,  the anguish in Hell (after Judgement) is self-imposed. Everyone see evidence of God's works of creation so that's not the issue, the issue is sin; the new creation will be a sin-free, but the really good part is that those who choose salvation will have free will without the possibility of sinning.

Why didn't god make this, creation sin free? The omniscient god knew Adam and Eve would eat the magic apple before he even created them, and the omnipresent god stood there and watched them do it, why? And why did god put the serpent in the garden, he knew exactly what the little shit was going to tell them. God set them up, they were framed. Even the O J Simpson jury would find him guilty.

My bold.

Two revelations are given: The physical Universe (Book of nature) which reveals God's eternal power and divine nature; and the Book of Scripture which states the reasons (Universe exist for two main reasons). Should be remembered that God would rather have Spiritual Beings (humans and angels) have free-will with the possibility of evil than to have no free-will and no evil.

You just told us, in your own quoted statement above..that free will without sin was a possibility.  Obviously god doesn't have to make any middling choice between having free will and evil. Are you really going to insist that your god prefers this earths fallen state to his own kingdom in heaven?

You are born, you live, you die. Then you are gone forever. No heaven, no hell, nothing. End of discussion. 

(October 9, 2017 at 1:01 pm)Drich Wrote:

(October 6, 2017 at 3:27 pm)Astreja Wrote: Your method sounds very much like an act of self-hypnosis, especially the "over and over and over again" part.

you miss the obvious to find your 'self diagnosis.'

If you live your life and never find God you will indeed inevitably find Hell. that is why I can not promise a return trip home. But can promise God one way or another will indeed show you the gates of Hell.

Fuck you and fuck your evil imaginary friend.  Your hell -- *You* burn in it.

I don't understand why Atheists hate the idea of hell. If exists, it certainly is for evil people and not good people right?

Why hate justice?

Sure good and evil is not necessarily what a Theist says it is, but at the end, hell is destruction for the most wicked, and only them.