(November 28, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If I was not a theist I would be a deist. To me, atheism makes the least logical sense out of all 3.

And I don't mean this as an insult to y'all (I'm sure y'all feel the same way about what I am).

I just mean it would take some serious, serious faith and dishonesty to myself to believe there exists NO force, not bound by the laws of nature, that could have created the first physical thing to ever have existed.

Nope, atheism is the position of not believing that there is this force, not necessarily that this force is not. Regardless, we see no justification for painting a face on it and praying for rain.

Quote:Laws don't exist by themselves

Says who?

It's the law.

(November 28, 2017 at 3:11 pm)Cyberman Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If I was not a theist I would be a deist. To me, atheism makes the least logical sense out of all 3.

And I don't mean this as an insult to y'all  (I'm sure y'all feel the same way about what I am).

I just mean it would take some serious, serious faith and dishonesty to myself to believe there exists NO force, not bound by the laws of nature, that could have created the first physical thing to ever have existed.

Nope, atheism is the position of not believing that there is this force, not necessarily that this force is not. Regardless, we see no justification for painting a face on it and praying for rain.

Personally I'm an atheist who believes that reality is eternal but finite. Reality is indestructible, has always existed and will never disappear but the causes don't stretch back forever. There is a first uncaused cause, that is eternal precisely because it is uncaused, but calling that "God" or a "prime-mover" is entirely misleading at worst and entirely pointless at best.

(November 28, 2017 at 3:10 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 2:40 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You know how clear the witness argument is. It's been explained and proven thoroughly. We have an exact value, and exact measurement, not determined by us, but a  perfect judge.   Humans all know this though they may have became heedless of their constant witnessing of this like we become heedless of breathing.

Screaming, "it's true!" over and over again is not proof.  I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate this 'exact/perfect value', you speak of.  When we ask you to provide evidence for its existence, you simply say, 'come on you guys; it exists.  You know it does.  See?  Proof.'  Or you quote the Koran.  Also, not proof.

Dafuq?!

There is a thread about this. I'm sure you have read it. I not only provided proofs but showed how everyone who replied contradicts themselves in their reply. Even Wallym when he says "there is nothing wrong with hoping..." is a sense affirming the validity of value and If you want to get into this dialogue I will.

Love proves value, justice proves value, and value proves unity of justice and love.

You when you do an action and wish to be appreciated believe there is a value to your actions, and love proves everything, because everything has value except for evil that comes out it, which is to be hated by love, except in the good that comes out facing evil with patience and resolve.

Quote:I believe an All-Powerful, All-Good, All-Beautiful Creator makes this happen.

No one cares 

Quote:Regardless of what I think of myself or you think of me, something gives me exact inheritance to my actions and perpetuates my identity. 

No one cares 

Quote:And something maintains the universe and it's laws

Likely 

Quote:It's evident, it's manifest. And the Witness argument is a sound argument and you breathe in it and out every day and rely on it, and believe in it, but then you come out rebelling against it and self-deceiving yourself with respect to it.

No it's not and my ability to expire gas from my chest sure as hell does not manifest it. No last i checked i rely on a gas not a magic sky pixie. Yup i believe in gas that's true. No i can't rebel against something that isn't their . Nope once again it has to be their first .

(November 28, 2017 at 3:15 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 3:10 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Screaming, "it's true!" over and over again is not proof.  I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate this 'exact/perfect value', you speak of.  When we ask you to provide evidence for its existence, you simply say, 'come on you guys; it exists.  You know it does.  See?  Proof.'  Or you quote the Koran.  Also, not proof.

Dafuq?!

There is a thread about this. I'm sure you have read it. I not only provided proofs but showed how everyone who replied contradicts themselves in their reply. Even Wallym when he says "there is nothing wrong with hoping..." is a sense affirming the validity of value and If you want to get into this dialogue I will.

Love proves value, justice proves value, and value proves unity of justice and love.

You when you do an action and wish to be appreciated believe there is a value to your actions, and love proves everything, because everything has value except for evil that comes out it, which is to be hated by love, except in the good that comes out facing evil with patience and resolve.

This was a marginally interesting thread.

Then you showed up.

I love all of you cunts. Give me a hug you fantastic bastards who are all just part of the universe dancing, including MK no matter how silly he is.

Whoops, sorry, wrong thread. This isn't the MDMA thread.

Quote:There is a thread about this. I'm sure you have read it. I not only provided proofs but showed how everyone who replied contradicts themselves in their reply. Even Wallym when he says "there is nothing wrong with hoping..." is a sense affirming the validity of value and If you want to get into this dialogue I will.

Affirming states like hope does not a magic sky pixie prove  

Quote:Love proves value, justice proves value, and value proves unity of justice and love.

Yup human value states that don't prove magic 

Quote:You when you do an action and wish to be appreciated believe there is a value to your actions, and love proves everything, because everything has value except for evil that comes out it, which is to be hated by love, except in the good that comes out facing evil with patience and resolve.

Once again the existence of human emotional states and social concepts does not prove your sky pixie is real

(November 28, 2017 at 3:15 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 3:10 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Screaming, "it's true!" over and over again is not proof.  I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate this 'exact/perfect value', you speak of.  When we ask you to provide evidence for its existence, you simply say, 'come on you guys; it exists.  You know it does.  See?  Proof.'  Or you quote the Koran.  Also, not proof.

Dafuq?!

Love proves value, justice proves value, and value proves unity of justice and love.

You when you do an action and wish to be appreciated believe there is a value to your actions, and love proves everything, because everything has value except for evil that comes out it, which is to be hated by love, except in the good that comes out facing evil with patience and resolve.

You give me diabetes...