I say smack the parents with a 10th grade biology text book, till they agree to read and understand it. Oh and one should also explain to them that Google and WebMD are not actual doctors.

(November 29, 2017 at 11:16 pm)Coveny Wrote: There is a lot of misinformation on the internet that references “studies” that have been debunked my science. There is also the fact that science isn’t infallible and has history has shown what science believe to be good for you today, could later turn out to be bad for you. I believe in this case vaccines have proven they work, and they are good science, but their effectiveness means that the risk is much lower to be exposed and therefore need the vaccine is lower as well.
 
We’ve recently seen cases of preventable illness come back into America after years without a case. I’m a supporter of freedom, but I want what’s best for our society as well. Laws about seatbelts statistically save lives, but this is forcing people to do things against their will for society and their own “good”. How can we call it freedom if we don’t have the choice to make bad decisions? Freedom isn’t defined by a Stepford wife following along because she’s programed to, freedom is defined by doing things like drinking, smoking, gambling, etc that many disagree with. Where is the line in the sand on freedom?
 
Many public schools require immunization of children or they won’t accept them. These people are paying their taxes for services they cannot use. Should they get a tax break? Is that fair? Is it ethical to take away services paid for simply because you don’t agree with the way the person using it acts? And if it’s based more on the danger the unimmunized child presents what’s the liability?
 
Should we charge anti-vaxxer parents with assault or murder if they cause an outbreak? They generally live in communities, is the whole community to blame? How do we decide (if we agree there should be punishment) who and how much is justified? And what about their own children?
 
Is it moral to punish a parent for doing what they believe will help even if the end result hurts their child? I don’t know of a single parent who hasn’t felt like they’ve made some bad decisions in raising their children. It’s not like we received a handbook, and even if we did no one would have time to read it. As it requires more and more time to simply “get by” economically, how much of this is societies fault, and how much is simply a case of not having the time and money to do your due diligence?

I believe parents should be allowed not vaccinate their children as long as they fuuly accept the civil and ciminal liabilities that come with that decision (i.e. they get done for murder if another child dies because of a disease their child passes on). Not immunising your children is the height of selfishness, not only are you needlessly endangering your children you are endangering the children of non-neglecting parents too.

(November 30, 2017 at 4:52 am)Wololo Wrote: I believe parents should be allowed not vaccinate their children as long as they fuuly accept the civil and ciminal liabilities that come with that decision (i.e. they get done for murder if another child dies because of a disease their child passes on). Not immunising your children is the height of selfishness, not only are you needlessly endangering your children  you are endangering the children of non-neglecting parents too.

*bold mine

How the heck is anyone supposed to prove that a particular unvaccinated child did spread it to another particular child? Besides, once the child is dead, no amount of punishment is gonna bring them back, so we need laws to prevent that outcome beforehand. Though, laws won't be enough to solve this, only real education can be a cure for idiocy. It would be a good first step for America to fix its homeschooling system. Sure children sometimes do have circumstances that require homeschooling, but the system is way too relaxed. Laws should ensure that the parents or whoever is responsible for teaching the kid does indeed have the requisite educational qualifications themselves and the progress should also be monitored. Without education, we get the current idiot population who are willing to believe in all sorts of nonsense

(November 30, 2017 at 5:23 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(November 30, 2017 at 4:52 am)Wololo Wrote: I believe parents should be allowed not vaccinate their children as long as they fuuly accept the civil and ciminal liabilities that come with that decision (i.e. they get done for murder if another child dies because of a disease their child passes on). Not immunising your children is the height of selfishness, not only are you needlessly endangering your children  you are endangering the children of non-neglecting parents too.

*bold mine

How the heck is anyone supposed to prove that a particular unvaccinated child did spread it to another particular child? Besides, once the child is dead, no amount of punishment  is gonna bring them back, so we need laws to prevent that outcome beforehand. Though, laws won't be enough to solve this, only real education can be a cure for idiocy. It would be a good first step for America to fix its homeschooling system. Sure children sometimes do have circumstances that require homeschooling, but the system is way too relaxed. Laws should ensure that the parents or whoever is responsible for teaching the kid does indeed have the requisite educational qualifications themselves and the progress should also be monitored. Without education, we get the current idiot population who are willing to believe in all sorts of nonsense

If another child in the same school dies of a disease another child is unvaccinated for, that's proof enough for me. And if there are more unvaccinated children we can apply joint and several liability.

Definitely, since you're putting other children at risk, due to lack of herd immunization.

I would say that should definitely fall under child neglect,.

Anyone who says "no" will be eaten by the wolves, so ill step out...

Make Jim Carrey Parenthood Illegal Again.

This post is weird.

(November 29, 2017 at 11:21 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It could easily be seen as a form of neglect. And it effects every other kid that this kid comes into contact with. Maybe not give them major prison time, but definitely a fine or something.

It doesn't always affect other kids they come in contact with.

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(November 29, 2017 at 11:28 pm)Hammy Wrote: It should be considered childhood neglect. So should refusing your children blood transplants because it's your 'religion'. It should absolutely be illegal.

Many people I've talked with believe it's neglect, but they also believe that it should be allowed for religion. I don't see the difference...

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(November 29, 2017 at 11:45 pm)Cecelia Wrote:

(November 29, 2017 at 11:16 pm)Coveny Wrote: These people are paying their taxes for services they cannot use. 

No, they're paying taxes for services they don't personally use by choice.

Do I get a tax refund for roads I don't drive on?  Of course not.  I don't drive on them by choice.  Furthermore, those roads allow companies to ship items to stores where I buy items.  So even though I don't personally use them (by choice) I still benefit from them.

Just like people benefit from Public Education, even if they don't personally have kids or if they don't indeed send their kids to public schools.  Many of our doctors learned to read and write thanks to public schools.  Got into college thanks to public schools, and therefore got into medical school.  Also I imagine that if there were no public education society would not be a very livable place.  (Many of the workers got where they are thanks to receiving a public education.  Without them, imagine where most of us would be!)

If they have children, and want to send their kids to public schools they absolutely can.  Why wouldn't they be able to?  All they have to do is get their children vaccinated.  They CHOSE not to get vaccinated, just like I CHOSE not to drive on those specific roads.
Not Vaccinating your child can be tantamount to abuse -- except in cases where there's a medical reason they can't receive the vaccine.

Not the same thing. They chose to go to public school and the service is refuse. If you chose to drive on that road and then a cop prevented you, that would be a better 

(November 29, 2017 at 11:53 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 29, 2017 at 11:16 pm)Coveny Wrote: Should they get a tax break? Is that fair? 

I pay taxes for services I don't use as well, so yeah..it's fair.
 

Quote:Should we charge anti-vaxxer parents with assault or murder if they cause an outbreak? 

No. 
 

Quote:Is it moral to punish a parent for doing what they believe will help even if the end result hurts their child?

Probably, but I think you're angling for "legal"..in which case..definitely..we do it all the time.

Quote:I don’t know of a single parent who hasn’t felt like they’ve made some bad decisions in raising their children. It’s not like we received a handbook, and even if we did no one would have time to read it. As it requires more and more time to simply “get by” economically, how much of this is societies fault, and how much is simply a case of not having the time and money to do your due diligence?

 IKR, I missed my youngests vax schedule, the health dept called and notified me.  I took him to the health dept.  Took all of 20 minutes and didn't cost me a dime.  Fair trade, I think, for immunity to diseases that have a history of killing kids like it was their job.  If a parent doesn't have the time or money for that...vaccination is going to be the least of that kids worries growing up.

Again don't use is different from refused service.

Interesting. So you believe vaccines should be mandatory, but don't believe not vaccinating your child is child endangerment? I'm I misunderstanding your position?

If only it was 20 minutes worth of driving, I think we wouldn't be in this position.

(November 30, 2017 at 2:35 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: If people don't want to have their kids vaccinated then the parents should be taken into a room and the doctor should have a set of syringes full of the contagious diseases.  The parents are then asked if that's their final decision.  If they say yes then they get injected with the contagious diseases and locked up in solitary confinement until they croak.

Well that escalated quickly...

Enough kids in the US have died from neglect in the name of religion already. We don't need to start saying it's ok to refuse to vaccinate because your religion says so.