(December 23, 2017 at 10:01 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I live in a tiny border town called Del Rio. All the locals are Mexican American, so it's not really Texan culture.

We've got plenty of Mexican-Americans here in Travis County, and they are as self-reliant as any other ethnicity I've met.

Feminists want more stuff for women and mra want more stuff for men, simple as that. The conflict arises because there is only limited resources and both groups want more for themselves so they're constantly fighting among themselves. The individualistic culture adds fuel to the fire because if the culture was family oriented there wouldn't be a man vs woman fight in the first place but because the culture is individualistic everybody is out for themselves. I myself side more with the mra side because 1)feminists control or have more resources and/or power than the mra side, it would be humane to give up some for the others in a fashion that the resources and/or power is divided in a 50-50 ratio but they are not doing it. 2) I disagree with the core structure with which feminism is built around(patriarchy), I don't like that "men are bad" is the undertone of their core structure, I do like "we need help" is the undertone of the core structure of mra side. So naturally my sympathies are more on their side, siding with the underdog and whatnot. 🙂
Oh and btw mra people on reddit are absolutely disgusting people with heavy white supremacy ideas, anti women ideas, like really top level cringe people, definitely don't give them any power.

(December 23, 2017 at 10:18 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 10:01 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I live in a tiny border town called Del Rio. All the locals are Mexican American, so it's not really Texan culture.

We've got plenty of Mexican-Americans here in Travis County, and they are as self-reliant as any other ethnicity I've met.

Fair enough, didn't mean to imply they weren't self reliant.

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(December 23, 2017 at 10:22 am)pool the matey Wrote: Feminists want more stuff for women and mra want more stuff for men, simple as that. The conflict arises because there is only limited resources and both groups want more for themselves so they're constantly fighting among themselves. The individualistic culture adds fuel to the fire because if the culture was family oriented there wouldn't be a man vs woman fight in the first place but because the culture is individualistic everybody is out for themselves. I myself side more with the mra side because 1)feminists control or have more resources and/or power than the mra side, it would be humane to give up some for the others in a fashion that the resources and/or power is divided in a 50-50 ratio but they are not doing it. 2) I disagree with the core structure with which feminism is built around(patriarchy), I don't like that "men are bad" is the undertone of their core structure, I do like "we need help" is the core structure of mra side. So naturally my sympathies are more on their side, siding with the underdog and whatnot. 🙂
Oh and btw mra people on reddit are absolutely disgusting people with heavy white supremacy ideas, anti women ideas, like really top cringe people, definitely don't give them any power.

They each just highlight that genders disadvantages. At least that's what it's supposed to be I guess.

I think the idea that feminists "control more resources" is laughably inaccurate.

(December 23, 2017 at 3:27 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(December 22, 2017 at 2:56 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: Lol, you just operate with conviently different and flexible definitions of feminism. Yeah, you're a feminst....if it were 1960. But no women's studies professor or well educated feminist today accepts your definition, especially the egalitarian under the law and then that's that approach.  A group is self defined, not defined by someone clearly hostile to it's fringe movement  (whoever they might be, it's not really clear.)

Bullshit. You don’t know my beliefs, don’t suppose to know them for the sake of argument. I don’t believe that equality under the law is all that matters. Clearly laws don’t directly stamp out sexism, attitudes themselves need to change.

As for definitions, were you here earlier in the thread where I linked to a bunch of them? Feminism itself isn’t one thing, it’s fractured into multiple sub-groups, some of which have real disagreements with each other.

So sure, feminists are self defined, but which type is important if you want to have a discussion about it.

Lol, if I don't know your beliefs, who's fault is that? Express them more clearly. I can only go off of what you type here.

But Ive been on these forums for what? 5 years. I'd say I know more about your beliefs then 90% of the people I know in real life.

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Fuck, I thought I said I was out of this thread. Capn Awesome away! Peace!

(December 23, 2017 at 10:41 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I think the idea that feminists "control more resources" is laughably inaccurate.

Indeed.

If it were true feminism wouldn't need to be a thing!

(December 23, 2017 at 10:41 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I think the idea that feminists "control more resources" is laughably inaccurate.

Indeed.

If it were true feminism wouldn't need to be a thing!

(December 23, 2017 at 10:22 am)pool the matey Wrote: Feminists want more stuff for women and mra want more stuff for men, simple as that. 

This is fundamentally wrong at least about feminists. It is not about wanting "stuff". 

I see a lot of people discussing what is a feminist, and that's fair, but I can only relay how I see things. 

I am a feminist. 

I grew up female, and culturally, that means being pleasant, not making waves, looking a certain way. Being somehow lesser than. (I was born in the 60s, so my generation is very likely to be socialized differently than younger ones). When I was born, women could not get bank credit without a man co-signing for her. We were fired for being pregnant. We were expected to abandon any career when we got married. We had no control over our own reproductive choices, there was no widely available birth control for women. Why has that changed? Because women spoke up. That is the kind of feminist I am. 

I have had men comment on my physical appearance every day (when I was younger and more attractive, thank heavens I became invisible when I hit 40). If we don't look a certain way, we are not attractive to men and have no value in the world. I have men at work and other situations interrupt me when I am talking. I have had bosses that spoke to me like I was a child, and who gave men credit for my thoughts and ideas, repeatedly, and have watched other women get the same treatment. I have people tell me that I am selfish for not having kids and instead focusing on my career. We are faulted for taking time from work to have children, and in fact, most of us don't get any paid maternity leave because there is no law in this country that allows for it. I am lucky enough to work for a company that gives up to 12 weeks of "disability" when you go out on leave. (is pregnancy a "disability"?). We are expected to be sexually selective and chaste, and if we are not, we are disgusting and dirty and shameful (while men are celebrated). We are blamed and/or doubted when we are sexually assaulted, something I have firsthand knowledge of. We face men who want to dictate whether we are to carry pregnancies in our own bodies. We are expected to be more helpless, dependent on marriage and family, and acquiescent in general. To Love, Honor and Obey. (and for this I blame religion largely). 

I take umbrage to sexism, like sports teams joking about how their opponents carry purses, as if women are somehow lesser, weaker, something to be ridiculed. 

This is the kind of feminist I am. 

So instead of wanting "stuff", as a feminist, I think my main issue is being prejudged and disrespected because I have a uterus. This is what I care about. This is a societal wrong. 

So in that light, MRAs to me are that kid at Christmas who isn't getting the same number of gifts as women. The non-oppressed whining that they are not getting the special attention that the oppressed are demanding. The dismissal of issues brought up by the oppressed by the groups who do not understand at all what it's like to walk a mile in the others' shoes. I would love to hear arguments to the contrary, please tell me if I am wrong. This is how it appears to me, a group of people with a certain amount of disdain for the other. 

As a feminist, I want equal opportunity for ALL PEOPLE regardless of sex. I love men. I am not a man-hating dyke although I have been called that for expressing these thoughts to others. I don't want special stuff. I don't deny anyone their own story of their own struggles. I want to listen and understand. I don't want special treatment. I want a level playing field.

(December 23, 2017 at 4:02 am)shadow Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 2:35 am)Aegon Wrote: How small is small

Surmountable. Such that you can still achieve your goals if you are determined to do so.

This would vary by person, depending on how able they are naturally or what their circumstances allow. But, if the alternative is focusing on a weakness, already it would be more productive just to work hard and embrace the challenge. Winning is fun, but overcoming a challenge is so much better. And I think overcoming those challenges is the only way to actually change society - not on a level of what is politically correct, but on a level of how people actually behave. If we want more female CEOs or scientists, women going after those professions will cause that change more than anything else in impacting society's views and the actual numbers in those careers. It's one of my favorite sayings, be the change you wish to see in the world. Nothing embodies that better than literally defying some statistic that says that by odds you shouldn't be a CEO. The time for organized action, in my view, is when there are institutional barriers limiting people, not societal ones.

I think there are quite a few institutional barriers that people THINK are societal, but to give examples I need a cup of coffee.

(December 23, 2017 at 9:49 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 22, 2017 at 1:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I actually really like this message. You don't hear it much these days lol...

lol, you live in Texas and you don't hear about self-reliance? Get out a little more and talk to the locals, you'll definitely hear this message all over.

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(December 23, 2017 at 2:21 am)Shell B Wrote: Hey, I’m not done. I’ll come back and poke the bear when I’m done enjoying my holiday. For now, I’ll just get a ride for funsies, shall I?

For the record, we don’t have to play good cop, bad cop. Not only am I not in any position of authority, I’m IRL quite a lot more abrasive than Tibs. That you stupid assholes even have to stretch to define his meanness as that one time he called the raging cuntosaurus rex a dipshit after she said people who call themselves egalitarian dipshits is proof positive you whiny little shits just want a reason to be mad at him because either A. you dislike him by association to me or B. You mistakenly see him as some incarnation of “the man” and can’t help but rail against the “system” at any given chance. Boofuckinghoo. It’s always the same turd burglars in these things (myself included, I suppose). Circle jerks for everyone. Merry Christmas, assholes.

This bitch is mad an' shit, y'all.

By the way, that "IRL" was entirely unnecessary. Your abrasiveness follows you around like a black cat dragging around its own bad luck. The perverse pride you take in it ... well, that's a project for you, I guess. Pack a lunch, though.

And there he is, like clockwork. You’re quite easy.