(March 1, 2018 at 4:40 am)SaStrike Wrote:

(March 1, 2018 at 4:10 am)Grandizer Wrote: Considering she's competed against men in the past, and so is not a rookie, the odds are pretty good. But again, you're going by one (or at best two examples here). Where are all the other transwomen dominating their respective sports?

Shifting the burden of proof?

Shifting what burden? It doesn't make sense in this context. You bring up one case to try to "prove" a trend, and we're supposed to be satisfied with just one example? And that's if she even is dominating in the smashing kind of way that you guys are implying. Read my added insert in my previous post.

Quote:Anyway we are referring to this case. if You want to refer to other cases where transwomen aren't dominating female sports, you find other cases where transwomen are competing and aren't dominating female sports. Otherwise it could be assumed that either they are not competing in official sports or that their cases aren't getting media coverage. (and when they do, records get broken etc etc, see case above)

lol, you sure suck at logic. Have you ever considered that maybe they're not getting media coverage because, while they are competing in official sports, they just aren't breaking any records or dominating?

(March 1, 2018 at 4:10 am)Grandizer Wrote: [quote='SaStrike' pid='1709558' dateline='1519891244']

Also, this:

Quote:Tiffany killed 44% of the 75 attempts she did during trhe match. These 75 balls mean 51% of all attacks of her team in the match that’s why so scored many points. She is a good player, but the % shows she is like the other players in the league. Other opposites, like Renatinha (Fluminense) were better than her facing Praia (50/ 25 = 50% attack).

http://www.volleywood.net/volleyball-rel...as-record/

So the gap of dominance is?

What you are showing is an irrelevant statistic as there are too many different statistics to show. Did she break the record? Is the stat that matters.

We could even show stats about who ran more meters in a game but that won't mean anything.

Anyway your example actually proves the gap lol. She is able to attempt 75 and the other player (i take it is one of the best?) is able to attempt 50... That's a 150% difference. 33 success vs 25 success? Convert that to points. No gap?

(March 1, 2018 at 4:48 am)SaStrike Wrote:

(March 1, 2018 at 4:10 am)Grandizer Wrote: http://www.volleywood.net/volleyball-rel...as-record/

So the gap of dominance is?

What you are showing is an irrelevant statistic as there are too many different statistics to show. Did she break the record? Is the stat that matters.

The previous record was? Since you've checked the site, you should know. It wasn't a smashing record breaker, lol.

Quote:We could even show stats about who ran more meters in a game but that won't mean anything.

Anyway your example actually proves the gap lol. She is able to attempt 75 and the other player (i take it is one of the best?) is able to attempt 50... That's a 150% difference. 41 success vs 25 success? Convert that to points. No gap?

Volleyball is a team sport. Perhaps her fellow teammates kept giving her the ball to smash (or whatever). And besides, you don't just look at the absolute figures to decide who's the best player, lol. Look at it this way, she had more attempts but still did worse than the other player being compared to in terms of percentage.

Basically in the stat you gave, it only shows that she doesn't even needs to be as skilled as her physicality can make up for it and grants her 1.5 times more attempts. In the example you gave, she outscores the female by 33-25. In order for the fenale to beat her, she needs a huge 67% success rate.

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(March 1, 2018 at 4:45 am)Grandizer Wrote: [quote='SaStrike' pid='1709563' dateline='1519893631']

lol, you sure suck at logic.

Why are you getting personal lol. People can't seem to have a discussion without their emotions taking over.

(March 1, 2018 at 4:59 am)SaStrike Wrote: Basically in the stat you gave, it only shows that she doesn't even needs to be as skilled as her physicality can make up for it and grants her 1.5 times more attempts. In the example you gave, she outscores the female by 33-25. In order for the fenale to beat her, she needs a huge 67% success rate.

When you watch the match, then you can tell us the specifics of what happened exactly. Until then, you're just making stuff up. You have the stats, and the brief analysis of one expert who doesn't support your opinion, and that's it.

(March 1, 2018 at 5:15 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(March 1, 2018 at 4:59 am)SaStrike Wrote: Basically in the stat you gave, it only shows that she doesn't even needs to be as skilled as her physicality can make up for it and grants her 1.5 times more attempts. In the example you gave, she outscores the female by 33-25. In order for the fenale to beat her, she needs a huge 67% success rate.

When you watch the match, then you can tell us the specifics of what happened exactly. Until then, you're just making stuff up. You have the stats, and the brief analysis of one expert who doesn't support your opinion, and that's it.

What....? You are the one who posted "maybe her teammates did this and maybe that"

I went with your actual stats you posted. She attempted 150% more than the player you compared her to (one of the better players in the league, going to refer to her as opponent for simplicity).

That is 33/75 where opponent has 25/50 (41% vs 50% is less skilled, but more attempts, dont see where im making that up)

So points wise that is 33-25

Now in order for the opponent to beat her with the same amount of 50 attempts, she will need 67-68% which is: 34/50

So points wise 33-34

Where did i just make stuff up? Your stat literally points out an unfair advantage. So go on, since you wont admit it, talk about theoretical scenarios in the game which effected the stats. ( which is illogical for me to do but perfectly ok for you to do)

I'm referring to your first sentence where you confidently assert how she got those attempts. No need to go all mathy here when all you have to consider is the successful hits per the total of attempts. I haven't seen the match, and you probably haven't either. Watching the match is how you figure out exactly how she got those attempts. It's also of good importance to find out how normal it is to have 75 attempts to score/hit in a Brazilian top league volleyball match (for women).

(March 1, 2018 at 6:00 am)Grandizer Wrote: I'm referring to your first sentence where you confidently assert how she got those attempts. No need to go all mathy here when all you have to consider is the successful hits per the total of attempts. I haven't seen the match, and you probably haven't either. Watching the match is how you figure out exactly how she got those attempts. It's also of good importance to find out how normal it is to have 75 attempts to score/hit in a Brazilian top league volleyball match (for women).

I already mentioned that looking at 1 stat was irrelevant but the stat you linked to try and display she wasn't dominating, actually doesn't show that.

Six players per team but if you have over half of the teams attempts does that mean fairness? The other half of the team together (five people) have less attempts than you (one person). I highly doubt that much attempts are normal.

(March 1, 2018 at 6:17 am)SaStrike Wrote:

(March 1, 2018 at 6:00 am)Grandizer Wrote: I'm referring to your first sentence where you confidently assert how she got those attempts. No need to go all mathy here when all you have to consider is the successful hits per the total of attempts. I haven't seen the match, and you probably haven't either. Watching the match is how you figure out exactly how she got those attempts. It's also of good importance to find out how normal it is to have 75 attempts to score/hit in a Brazilian top league volleyball match (for women).

I already mentioned that looking at 1 stat was irrelevant but the stat you linked to try and display she wasn't dominating, actually doesn't show that.

Six players per team but if you have over half of the teams attempts does that mean fairness? The other half of the team together (five people) have less attempts than you (one person). I highly doubt that much attempts are normal.

To be very clear, I am not saying she's not a powerful player. I am saying that, so far from what I see, she isn't as great a player as the media is trying to make her out to be. She surpassed previous record holder by 2 points, and she had 75 attempts to do so, out of which she was good 44%. The question is, how did these attempts emerge? It's possible her teammates just simply gave her the ball most of the time to let her have at it. Or maybe it really is her physicality.

Actually, the more important question is: is she an outlier? Or is she representative of some trend indicating that transwomen are smashing their competition? Like I said earlier, you have at best two cases out of God knows how many total cases. 2 is a very small number to make good logical inferences from. And that's one of the main points to consider here.

Another question is what are the various factors that makes players like Fallon and Tiffany great players? Is having a good physicality more than enough? Or could it be that they've played against men in the past and so have accumulated skill-building/boosting experience that other women don't get to normally experience?

We also do need to ensure we're not going to find the tiniest bit of excuse to marginalize transgendered/transsexual people even more just because whatever it is they do isn't making some of us happy.

(March 1, 2018 at 6:33 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(March 1, 2018 at 6:17 am)SaStrike Wrote: I already mentioned that looking at 1 stat was irrelevant but the stat you linked to try and display she wasn't dominating, actually doesn't show that.

Six players per team but if you have over half of the teams attempts does that mean fairness? The other half of the team together (five people) have less attempts than you (one person). I highly doubt that much attempts are normal.

To be very clear, I am not saying she's not a powerful player. I am saying that, so far from what I see, she isn't as great a player as the media is trying to make her out to be. She surpassed previous record holder by 2 points, and she had 75 attempts to do so, out of which she was good 44%. The question is, how did these attempts emerge? It's possible her teammates just simply gave her the ball most of the time to let her have at it. Or maybe it really is her physicality.

Actually, the more important question is: is she an outlier? Or is she representative of some trend indicating that transwomen are smashing their competition? Like I said earlier, you have at best two cases out of God knows how many total cases. 2 is a very small number to make good logical inferences from. And that's one of the main points to consider here.

Another question is what are the various factors that makes players like Fallon and Tiffany great players? Is having a good physicality more than enough? Or could it be that they've played against men in the past and so have accumulated skill-building/boosting experience that other women don't get to normally experience?

We also do need to ensure we're not going to find the tiniest bit of excuse to marginalize transgendered/transsexual people even more just because whatever it is they do isn't making some of us happy.

Nicely done. I agree, people do tend to marginalize, but is it really a tiny bit of an excuse this case? And I don't mean this specific case. Say for example if it is actually proven and accepted that transwomen do have an unfair advantage in sports vs regular women (again IF). Do you agree then with banning transwomen from competing in official female sports? Or will it be wrongfully marginalizing?