I recently saw one where the YEC said that to be a fossil a critter had to die and remain perfectly still in place until the ground covered him up. The reverse is the case in most dinos, they die, get covered up by landslides (Burgess Shale) or die in a flood and get covered up by silt (seven T-rex in one spot, Jack Horner's find in Alberta.)

(March 13, 2018 at 11:50 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: fun·da·men·tal·ism

/ˌfəndəˈmen(t)lˌizəm/

noun
noun: fundamentalism

a form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture.

•strict adherence to the basic principles of any subject or discipline.

I assume that RR is referring to the second meaning when it comes to atheists and the first meaning when it comes to religious fundamentalists, which is a classic equivocation on the face of it. I do wonder what the basic principles of atheism are, though. Don't believe in any deities and...what?

I wasn't really trying to make an argument or some larger point.  But I was thinking of an atheist with a rigid, intolerant, and dogmatic adherence to atheistm or an atheistic ideology.  Those who dismiss any idea that doesn't come from the right source.  Those who will take a hyper-literal interpretation, not because they think it is most likely what the author meant, but it may get them an intellectually dishonest advantage.  Those who are more interested in sophism and rhetoric, rather than logic and reason.

However in this instance I was pointing to the fact, that both can be difficult to reason with, because they won't accept anything that doesn't come from and support their worldview.

(March 13, 2018 at 11:50 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: fun·da·men·tal·ism

/ˌfəndəˈmen(t)lˌizəm/

noun
noun: fundamentalism

a form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture.

•strict adherence to the basic principles of any subject or discipline.

I assume that RR is referring to the second meaning when it comes to atheists and the first meaning when it comes to religious fundamentalists, which is a classic equivocation on the face of it. I do wonder what the basic principles of atheism are, though. Don't believe in any deities and...what?

Thanks for posting the definition, Mister. You've helped me in a debate elsewhere on the internet by doing so. In fairness, RR probably meant "ardent anti-theists" when he said "fundy atheists." Definitely a poor word choice, unless he was deliberately trying to get a rise out of us. As you point out, none of us adhere to a doctrine, so (passionate and resolute as we may be) the word "fundamentalist" misses the mark. But in all likelihood he was referring to passionate, opinionated anti-theists as I said before. I mean, you gotta allow room for idiomatic terminology and figures of speech.

EDIT: ninja'd

Quote:But I was thinking of an atheist with a rigid, intolerant, and dogmatic adherence to atheistm or an atheistic ideology.

There either is a god or there isn't.  Tell me, oh wise one, what room you see for nuance there?

None of you have ever provided the slightest actual evidence ( mental masturbation aside ) for any of the gods you have dreamed up throughout the long sad history of humanity.  Studying the record of futility leads me to the conclusion that there is no evidence and thus your gods and silly creeds and pious groans, etc., etc., can be dismissed.

Still, all that said, if you can produce actual evidence I would evaluate it but I am not holding my breath.  The ball is in your court.  I'm busy.

(March 13, 2018 at 7:55 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 13, 2018 at 7:25 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: The "standard model" of young Earth creationism is so easily decimated. A 6,000 year old cosmos ... dinosaurs coexisting with humans ... Noah's Ark ... It's amazing that anyone still believes in this stuff. Young Earth creationism is a house of cards. Prove any one part of it wrong, and the whole thing comes crashing down.

So, I thought I'd make a thread where we could all share "quick debunks" of YEC theory. These should be no longer than 1-3 paragraphs long. Just something to throw in creationists' faces upon encountering their weak ass arguments. It would benefit us all to be armed with a pocket-full of quick takedowns.

I'll go first: The Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away from us. That means that when we look at Andromeda through a telescope, we do not see it as it exists today. We see it as it existed 2.5 million years ago. If the universe is only 6,000 years old as you say, this means that when God created the cosmos, he actually stretched the light from Andromeda to Earth. Why? To give anyone with a telescope good reason to doubt the accounts in Genesis? It makes no sense.

I guess that religious dogmas are as bad as atheists dogmas.
The two are located at the two extreme yet one extreme think that he is correct while the other is wrong.  

Not worth talk about it.  

Translation: I need an excuse to use emotes and try to sound wise but I can't debunk anything that has been said.

OP: For the true YEC believer is there any debunk that would change their mind? I've talked to a few and usually get "god made it that way to begin with". Sometimes they include "because it's a test of faith". 

I'm not sure that any science based position will be seriously considered by most YEC's. Their mental world would crumble.

(March 13, 2018 at 12:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OP: For the true YEC believer is there any debunk that would change their mind? I've talked to a few and usually get "god made it that way to begin with". Sometimes they include "because it's a test of faith". 

I'm not sure that any science based position will be seriously considered by most YEC's. Their mental world would crumble.

No.

Creationists, especially YECs, are the most intellectually dishonest group I have ever encountered.

(March 13, 2018 at 12:48 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(March 13, 2018 at 12:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OP: For the true YEC believer is there any debunk that would change their mind? I've talked to a few and usually get "god made it that way to begin with". Sometimes they include "because it's a test of faith". 

I'm not sure that any science based position will be seriously considered by most YEC's. Their mental world would crumble.

No.

Creationists, especially YECs, are the most intellectually dishonest group I have ever encountered.

god made them that way?

(March 13, 2018 at 12:51 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(March 13, 2018 at 12:48 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: No.

Creationists, especially YECs, are the most intellectually dishonest group I have ever encountered.

god made them that way?

Yes. Badly, like the rest of his "creation".

(March 13, 2018 at 12:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OP: For the true YEC believer is there any debunk that would change their mind? I've talked to a few and usually get "god made it that way to begin with". Sometimes they include "because it's a test of faith". 

I'm not sure that any science based position will be seriously considered by most YEC's. Their mental world would crumble.

No.  And their leader has admitted such.



Hence the primary use for creatards is for my personal amusement.  Shitheads will remain willing shitheads because they prefer fairy tales to reality.