(March 13, 2018 at 12:52 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(March 13, 2018 at 12:51 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: god made them that way?

Yes.  Badly, like the rest of his "creation".

and god made you also just to test their faith.

Get thee behind me oh vile temptress! (speaking for them, I definitely want to see and be tempted)

(March 13, 2018 at 12:59 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(March 13, 2018 at 12:52 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Yes.  Badly, like the rest of his "creation".

and god made you also just to test their faith.

Get thee behind me oh vile temptress! (speaking for them, I definitely want to see and be tempted)

I'm offended.

"Vile"?

I'm an awesome temptress.

That's "awesome" with a capital "O".

(March 13, 2018 at 1:04 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(March 13, 2018 at 12:59 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: and god made you also just to test their faith.

Get thee behind me oh vile temptress! (speaking for them, I definitely want to see and be tempted)

I'm offended.

"Vile"?

I'm an awesome temptress.

That's "awesome" with a capital "O".

Camon, some of it has to be dirty and wicked.

(March 13, 2018 at 7:25 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: I'll go first: The Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away from us. That means that when we look at Andromeda through a telescope, we do not see it as it exists today. We see it as it existed 2.5 million years ago. If the universe is only 6,000 years old as you say, this means that when God created the cosmos, he actually stretched the light from Andromeda to Earth.

Kind of odd to make a charge and supply an answer yourself, but OK.

Quote:Why?

So we could see it.

Quote:To give anyone with a telescope good reason to doubt the accounts in Genesis? It makes no sense.

Why do you think that would cause doubt when you've already provided an explanation yourself?

We already been over this little dick . Atheism can't be a dogma, no matter how much you assert it is . And there is no atheist ideology nor can their be. And no don't start listing you delusions of atheist dogma . Because none of them are exclusive to atheism or necessary to be an atheist. You just trying drag us down to you level . Because it's all you got .

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And Alpha you don't know shit about evolution. And  your every foray into it has been an embarrassment . Save yourself the humiliation bugger off.

(March 13, 2018 at 9:52 am)Divinity Wrote: The Chinese invented pottery before God created the world.  Wow, those Chinese sure are smart.  Creating pottery before the world even existed.  The proto-hipster for sure.

I guess I believe in Chinese pottery creation at least.  And unlike things supernatural I've met many Chinese born and Chinese descended folks.

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(March 13, 2018 at 10:59 am)drfuzzy Wrote: I've been somewhat amused by Genesis 1:16 after I actually started studying science.
"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also." 

Well yeah, and first, this is described as the 4th day.  
   So, 1) how are there days before the creation of the sun? 
   2)  On the 3rd day, God supposedly created plants.  Plants.  Without stable gravity, (no sun, no moon, apparently no other planets) without sun.  

And stars . . . there are other biblical references about the stars singing for joy, so they didn't know what stars were.

But my big number 1 amusement is that our solar system isn't very old.  When our system and our sun formed, there were billions of galaxies already.
There were plenty of stars in the sky.  And nope, some deity didn't gouge a hole in one of the Milky Way's arms so it could play at creating a planet,
then a Sun, and its moon, and hey! there are stars there . . . and then conveniently ignore the actual creation of life and around 175 million years of
dinosaur rule, then come back, create a garden, tweak some animals and screw up a couple of perfectly good apes . . .

As an active gardener I call bullshit.

The creationists only response 

SCIENCE IS  AN EVIL GODLESS  LIBERAL CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY CHRISTIANITY !!!!

(March 13, 2018 at 12:48 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(March 13, 2018 at 12:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OP: For the true YEC believer is there any debunk that would change their mind? I've talked to a few and usually get "god made it that way to begin with". Sometimes they include "because it's a test of faith". 

I'm not sure that any science based position will be seriously considered by most YEC's. Their mental world would crumble.

No.

Creationists, especially YECs, are the most intellectually dishonest group I have ever encountered.

I'm pretty sure they place pig headed belief high above information .. any information.  So facts don't phase them and they are unpracticed at picking good ones anyway.  How can you argue with that?  May as well just do like Rik's favorite emoji and use your head for denting a table.

(March 13, 2018 at 2:50 pm)alpha male Wrote: Kind of odd to make a charge and supply an answer yourself, but OK.

It's called a rhetorical device.

Quote:So we could see it.

But we couldn't really see it for what it was until the 20th century... it's not like anyone can look up in the sky and see Andromeda. You need a powerful telescope or it looks like a small blur.By the time we figured out what it was, science had already figured out the speed of light. Anyone in their right mind would conclude that the galaxy was (at least) millions of years old. (In fact, it's billions of years old.) It has led tons and tons of people to reason that the universe is far older than 6,000 years. If the creationists have correctly pegged the universe's age, then Yahweh is a cosmic practical joker.

EDIT: Alpha, read Roadrunners comments on page 1. He has some insightful things to say.

Now watch him twist the facts or move the goal post like every other creationist .