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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 8:05 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 7:45 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: This isn't even a dodge.
Alpha, if God created the universe as you say he did, he's no better than Descartes' evil demon. To reason things as you have is two steps from accepting the flat earth. (You do accept the spherical earth model, right?) It's not just God stretching the light so we can see things. That answer doesn't work because, as RR pointed out here, that would mean that we are seeing stars die that never existed in the first place. Do you see how little sense that makes?
Look at it this way. One of us is right in this scenario. I think you should at least do some independent research here, if not enroll in an online astronomy course. There are plenty of people who reject the 6,000 year old model-- even Biblical inerrantists. So it doesn't even contradict the Bible to see the universe as older, at least according to many, many people. Plenty of people reject young earth creationism and are devout Christians.
I could sit here and give you information that proves my case all day, but I think you should take the time to learn the science yourself. Indeed if you accept what Beta is proposing . God is more akin to Loki .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 8:22 pm
This is the 21st century. Any adult who does not know evolution is the explanation for life's diversity is stupid. Ignorance is no longer an excuse. The truth is out there!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 8:52 pm
Science and Religion are basically incompatible for this very reason. The age of our planet and evolution are indisputable.
Science is all about evidence, religion is all about ignorance.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 11:21 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 7:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: (March 13, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Astreja Wrote: Why would a god create random clumps of photons
Why do you say random?
No rhyme or reason to it. With the YEC "light created on the way to Earth" hypothesilliness, a star that appears to be 100,000 light years away doesn't even need to exist. You could just rubber-stamp globs of light anywhere, one bunch for every stellar object, offset in such a way that it appears that the light has been travelling for a long time and originated from an object _____ light years away, rather than being generated closer to Earth.
Barking mad, I tell you -- Much less work to just let the universe be 13.8 billion years old and let the starlight travel on its own.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 11:43 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 7:25 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: ...If the universe is only 6,000 years old as you say, this means that when God created the cosmos, he actually stretched the light from Andromeda to Earth. Why? To give anyone with a telescope good reason to doubt the accounts in Genesis? It makes no sense.
Well seeing as beer was invented a thousand years prior to the creation of the universe is it any wonder the story is a wee bit, garbled? beer
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 14, 2018 at 12:07 am
(March 13, 2018 at 11:43 pm)Succubus Wrote: (March 13, 2018 at 7:25 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: ...If the universe is only 6,000 years old as you say, this means that when God created the cosmos, he actually stretched the light from Andromeda to Earth. Why? To give anyone with a telescope good reason to doubt the accounts in Genesis? It makes no sense.
Well seeing as beer was invented a thousand years prior to the creation of the universe is it any wonder the story is a wee bit, garbled? beer
Nah.
That's just evidence god was drunk when he made us.
Explains SO much...
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 14, 2018 at 3:39 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2018 at 3:48 am by I_am_not_mafia.)
(March 13, 2018 at 4:36 pm)alpha male Wrote: No, someone in their right mind could just as easily conclude that God created the universe with light already reaching earth.
Yeah but why would your god set up a light show of non-existent objects that look billions of years away? Why would your god create a load of fossils and scatter them in the ground to give the appearance of an Earth billions of years old?
Because if he did do this then he is deliberately trying to trick us to send us to Hell and an eternity of agony.
How can he do this and still be considered a good god?
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 14, 2018 at 5:15 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2018 at 5:48 am by John V.)
(March 13, 2018 at 7:17 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Why would you say otherwise?
Because in the scenario we're discussing, the light is associated with heavenly bodies. It's not just photons hitting earth randomly.
(March 13, 2018 at 7:45 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Alpha, if God created the universe as you say he did,
I didn't say he created the universe that way. It's one possible explanation, which you brought up yourself. Maybe there's other explanations. I haven't really studied it.
Quote:he's no better than Descartes' evil demon.
How so? You make this charge when you haven't even bothered to discuss God's purposes in creating the cosmos.
Quote:To reason things as you have is two steps from accepting the flat earth.
How so? You just make proclamations that YECs aren't in their right minds without supplying reasoning.
Quote:It's not just God stretching the light so we can see things.
Yes dear.
Quote:That answer doesn't work because, as RR pointed out here, that would mean that we are seeing stars die that never existed in the first place.
Why doesn't that work? Is there a reason God couldn't/wouldn't create this way, besides you saying that he wouldn't?
Quote:Do you see how little sense that makes?
No. RR makes a good analogy to Adam, but then completely gets the analogy wrong.
Do you agree with his point on premises?
Quote:Look at it this way. One of us is right in this scenario. I think you should at least do some independent research here, if not enroll in an online astronomy course. I could sit here and give you information that proves my case all day, but I think you should take the time to learn the science yourself.
LOL. Your case isn't based on science. Your case is based on what you would do if you were god. It's just an argument from personal incredulity - I don't think a god would create stars with their light already reaching earth.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 14, 2018 at 6:32 am
So... all the evidence points to one thing, but perhaps something totally different is true and the evidence has all been planted to mislead us?
Well, sure. You could reject any conclusion you ever make using that logic, but you wouldn't get very far.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 14, 2018 at 6:49 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2018 at 7:13 am by John V.)
(March 14, 2018 at 6:32 am)robvalue Wrote: So... all the evidence points to one thing, but perhaps something totally different is true and the evidence has all been planted to mislead us?
Well, sure. You could reject any conclusion you ever make using that logic, but you wouldn't get very far.
Not get very far? OK. It's not like I'm trying to recruit people.
If the point is that science says the universe is much older that 6,000 years - OK, no shit.
But the point of OP is that God wouldn't make the universe a certain way, and that position hasn't been supported at all. It's nothing but opinion.
(March 14, 2018 at 3:39 am)Mathilda Wrote: Yeah but why would your god set up a light show of non-existent objects that look billions of years away?
Because some people find it cool to look at, and maybe there's something to be learned from it.
Quote:Why would your god create a load of fossils and scatter them in the ground to give the appearance of an Earth billions of years old?
People can interpret fossils however they like. Some interpret them through a flood, others through an old earth (and wave away things like the Cambrian explosion that don't fit the narrative).
Quote:Because if he did do this then he is deliberately trying to trick us to send us to Hell and an eternity of agony.
How so? As has been noted, plenty of believers accept an old universe. Saving faith isn't based on such things.
(March 13, 2018 at 11:21 pm)Astreja Wrote: No rhyme or reason to it. With the YEC "light created on the way to Earth" hypothesilliness, a star that appears to be 100,000 light years away doesn't even need to exist. You could just rubber-stamp globs of light anywhere, one bunch for every stellar object, offset in such a way that it appears that the light has been travelling for a long time and originated from an object _____ light years away, rather than being generated closer to Earth.
So what?
Quote:Barking mad, I tell you -- Much less work to just let the universe be 13.8 billion years old and let the starlight travel on its own.
Yeah, and invent stuff we can't detect to make up 95% of the universe so the model works. 
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