(March 29, 2018 at 6:48 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(March 29, 2018 at 6:40 pm)johan Wrote: And that matters because? So ugly women shouldn't be surprised when they get cheat on then?

It's just particularly baffling to me why a man would cheat when he has a perfectly beautiful and devout wife at home. Cheating is awful regardless, and there's never any excusable reason for it.

Again, there's that word, beauty. Tell me, do you wonder why someone would commit rape if they had access to willing sex partners? Hint: Rape ain't about sex. And fidelity ain't about beauty.

I love how our AF threads get so easily derailed.

(March 29, 2018 at 8:20 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(March 29, 2018 at 8:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Wally, I just assume most women are good wives. Women tend to be naturally good at relationships, from what I've been able to tell. It seems most conflict in marriage/relationships happen because the man is an ass.

Spoken like a woman.

Hopefully its just a bit of sarcasm. If not, then naivete.

(March 29, 2018 at 8:35 pm)wallym Wrote:

(March 29, 2018 at 8:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Wally, I just assume most women are good wives. Women tend to be naturally good at relationships, from what I've been able to tell. It seems most conflict in marriage/relationships happen because the man is an ass.

Really?  I doubt most people are good wives or husbands.   

Just thinking through relationships I'm aware of, there are plenty of men who are asses, but there are also plenty of women who are soul-crushingly annoying.

I guess I've had a different experience. At least around here, I feel like the women aren't annoying enough, lol. All these air force wives sacrifice so much for their husbands and their husbands' careers. They talk to me and they're like "yeah, you know, I'd rather him take the assignment that's closer to family because it's hard raising all our kids while he's gone all the time, but you know, I'm not going to say anything because I'd rather him just do what he wants...." and I'm just like "girl, you're a wife, not a martyr. Tell your husband what you want, he should consider your needs, too!"

...cant say how often I've had this conversation.

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(March 29, 2018 at 9:11 pm)rskovride Wrote:

(March 29, 2018 at 8:20 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Spoken like a woman.

Hopefully its just a bit of sarcasm. If not, then naivete.

Not sarcasm. I feel like women are generally better than men at relationships.

(March 29, 2018 at 8:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Wally, I just assume most women are good wives. Women tend to be naturally good at relationships, from what I've been able to tell. It seems most conflict in marriage/relationships happen because the man is an ass.

I'm going to try to be kind here. You are either very young or have a very small circle of friends or both. Women at NOT naturally good at relationships. Neither are men. Gender has ZERO impact on whether or not a person is able to form healthy intimate relationships.

I am happily married. This is my first marriage. We have been together for however many years = since 2004 (I know its 14 or 15 years but I suck at that kind of math this time of day).

Meanwhile, I still know of several women that I had relationships with before I met my wife. All of those relationships failed. I'm sure that in most of them, my partner came out of it considering me to be the asshole. But when we look at the track record since my relationship with them ended, we see they fall into one of two categories. Either they got married and are now divorced. Or they never got married and are still single and uncoupled. Meanwhile I got married once. Still married. Still happy. So was I really the asshole in all those relationships?

The answer is probably. And so were they. The difference is I learned from each of my failures and became a better partner because of it. Them? Well their track record would suggest otherwise wouldn't it? So tell me again how women are naturally better at relationships because my eyes haven't rolled into the back of my head nearly enough today.

Quote:Not sarcasm. I feel like women are generally better than men at relationships.

I was specifically referring to "conflict in marriage/relationships happen because the man is an ass" .
Men in general are not the problem. The problem is ignorance and lack of acceptance of the true nature of human wants and desires; imposition of religious values that are in direct conflict of that true nature, brought on, in no small part, by sexual jealously .

It's been my observation, both in my family and in my friend groups, that most conflict/divorces have been mainly the man's shortcoming. This is why it seems to me women are generally better than men at relationships. There's also the fact that women generally tend to be more caring, nurturing, compassionate, and selfless, by nature.

There's exceptions, which is why I'm saying "generally."

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(March 29, 2018 at 9:31 pm)rskovride Wrote: The problem is ignorance and lack of acceptance of the true nature of human wants and desires; imposition of religious values that are in direct conflict of that true nature, brought on, in no small part, by sexual jealously .

Can you tell me what you are referring to specifically? Are you talking about monogamy?

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I just wanna add that maybe I'm coming off a little harsh against men. I dont want to give off the impression that I'm one of those crazy feminist women who say all men are assholes or something. I think there are a lot of really great men out there, and I'm lucky enough to be married to one.

(March 29, 2018 at 9:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's been my observation, both in my family and in my friend groups, that most conflict/divorces have been mainly the man's shortcoming. This is why it seems to me women are generally better than men at relationships. There's also the fact that women generally tend to be more caring, nurturing, compassionate, and selfless, by nature.

There's exceptions, which is why I'm saying "generally."

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With all due respect, you don't have nearly enough of a cross section to say 'generally'. Stick with 'in my family and friends' which is much more representative of what you actually know.

I won't rehash what I've already covered. Suffice it to say that its been my observation that people (women and men both) tend to suck at relationships unless and until, they decide to learn how to get better at them. Very often I find women and men both tend to blame the failure on the shortcomings of other person and go on to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Its also been my observation that save for two or three rare exceptions, anytime you say men tend to be better at X or women tend to be better at Y, you're talking out of your ass. Giving birth to babies and growing mustaches and multitasking are the only exceptions I personally know of. Women have been scientifically shown to be better at the first and third, men at the second. Other than that, its pretty much equal.

But since we're also talking in anecdotes and person observations, I'll give you one or two of my own that directly relate to this line of conversation. Way back when in my youth, I wanted to be a professional musician. And I was lucky enough to get to do that long enough to realize I actually hated it. So while most people's first exposure to bars is as an intoxicated patron, my first exposure was as a sober band member.

One of the first things I noticed in my 'being an adult and frequenting bars' phase was how many couples in the crowd were cheating on their spouses. That in itself wasn't really surprising to me. What was surprising was that I expected most of the cheaters to be men but in fact, almost all of the ones I saw cheating on spouses were women. Imagine that eh? But do you see me claiming women cheat more than men? Nope.

Then there's this. I've been in my fair share of committed monogamous relationships. I've never once cheated on a partner in any of them. I have no idea if any of them cheated on me. But what I do know is I was also once in a relationship with a married woman. Imagine that, I have one unfaithful relationship except I wasn't the one cheating, she was. Do you think it was because her husband was ugly?

(March 29, 2018 at 9:31 pm)rskovride Wrote: The problem is ignorance and lack of acceptance of the true nature of human wants and desires; imposition of religious values that are in direct conflict of that true nature, brought on, in no small part, by sexual jealously .

Can you say what you are referring to here?

I'd be curious to know, so I can know what you're talking about that makes you think my religious values are a detriment to my marriage.

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(March 29, 2018 at 10:26 pm)johan Wrote:

(March 29, 2018 at 9:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's been my observation, both in my family and in my friend groups, that most conflict/divorces have been mainly the man's shortcoming. This is why it seems to me women are generally better than men at relationships. There's also the fact that women generally tend to be more caring, nurturing, compassionate, and selfless, by nature.

There's exceptions, which is why I'm saying "generally."

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With all due respect, you don't have nearly enough of a cross section to say 'generally'. Stick with 'in my family and friends' which is much more representative of what you actually know.

I won't rehash what I've already covered. Suffice it to say that its been my observation that people (women and men both) tend to suck at relationships unless and until, they decide to learn how to get better at them. Very often I find women and men both tend to blame the failure on the shortcomings of other person and go on to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Its also been my observation that save for two or three rare exceptions, anytime you say men tend to be better at X or women tend to be better at Y, you're talking out of your ass. Giving birth to babies and growing mustaches and multitasking are the only exceptions I personally know of. Women have been scientifically shown to be better at the first and third, men at the second. Other than that, its pretty much equal.

But since we're also talking in anecdotes and person observations, I'll give you one or two of my own that directly relate to this line of conversation. Way back when in my youth, I wanted to be a professional musician. And I was lucky enough to get to do that long enough to realize I actually hated it. So while most people's first exposure to bars is as an intoxicated patron, my first exposure was as a sober band member.

One of the first things I noticed in my 'being an adult and frequenting bars' phase was how many couples in the crowd were cheating on their spouses. That in itself wasn't really surprising to me. What was surprising was that I expected most of the cheaters to be men but in fact, almost all of the ones I saw cheating on spouses were women. Imagine that eh? But do you see me claiming women cheat more than men? Nope.

Then there's this. I've been in my fair share of committed monogamous relationships. I've never once cheated on a partner in any of them. I have no idea if any of them cheated on me. But what I do know is I was also once in a relationship with a married woman. Imagine that, I have one unfaithful relationship except I wasn't the one cheating, she was. Do you think it was because her husband was ugly?

I disagree with you that men and women are equal in everything except giving birth and growing a mustache, but that's a conversation for a different thread.

Statistics show that over all, more men than women cheat. I was curious, so I googled it and posted the link.

(March 29, 2018 at 9:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's been my observation, both in my family and in my friend groups, that most conflict/divorces have been mainly the man's shortcoming. This is why it seems to me women are generally better than men at relationships. There's also the fact that women generally tend to be more caring, nurturing, compassionate, and selfless, by nature.

There's exceptions, which is why I'm saying "generally."

I wonder if it's just a North/South thing.  Up yonder, it was the women just in men's ears nagging endlessly about nonsense.